deleted

[ClonedSIM]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

This thread has been highjacked. To get back on topic, a person cannot use logic to dowse. That is not dowsing. It's the same with non-voluntary bodily functions. Sure, a few Yogis can regulate their internal organs, and various other functions, but even this is not done through logic.

It's the same thing with a mental witness. You've probably heard a few people say they chant "gold, gold, gold when they dowse. This is a mistake.

There's been no hijacking taking place, Mike. This discussion still very much revolves around logic and it's correlation to dowsing. If you'll recall, your friend Dell is the first to disagree with your initial statement, so you may wish to direct hijacking complaints towards him.

People use logic in every aspect of their lives, every day, Mike. To say you shouldn't apply logic to any particular thing is insane. It's those people that don't employ logic that end up getting themselves tangled up in really stupid situations, like falling out of a plane with no chute or getting their Prius stuck in foot deep mud.

 

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[ivan salis]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

man can not do what nature hasn't already done before --the super collider is a "mini" verison of the ideal of the "big bang" --some thing that "nuture" has already done according to science * --there are this very day "totally naturally made" things that go thru the earth that are totally unrelated to the the super collider and its operation --- these are the things that could "exicte" the elements "gold" for exsample --these types of matters are often too "deep" (read technical) or "boring" to the adverage "normal" person to deal with trying to understand them --- but for some folks these thoughts and ideals are very interesting --I am not the "adverage" person as I find thinking about such thing very interesting indeed.

the term we call "logic" is often "trapped" into meaning only known or "proven" Ideals --thus "dead" knowledge --- fresh new knowledge is often gained by applying older known "knowledge" to unknown problems in a attempt to "unlock" additional knowledge and make new theory's and even more inventions --- like electrical power and its transmisson had to be mastered before light bulbs became everyday useful items --- the one invention and discovery made the other viaible and doible .

 

[ClonedSIM]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

man can not do what nature hasn't already done before --the super collider is a "mini" verison of the ideal of the "big bang" --some thing that "nuture" has already done according to science * --there are this very day "totally naturally made" things that go thru the earth that are totally unrelated to the the super collider and its operation --- these are the things that could "exicte" the elements "gold" for exsample --these types of matters are often too "deep" (read technical) or "boring" to the adverage "normal" person to deal with trying to understand them --- but for some folks these thoughts and ideals are very interesting --I am not the "adverage" person as I find thinking about such thing very interesting indeed.

the term we call "logic" is often "trapped" into meaning only known or "proven" Ideals --thus "dead" knowledge --- fresh new knowledge is often gained by applying older known "knowledge" to unknown problems in a attempt to "unlock" additional knowledge and make new theory's and even more inventions --- like electrical power and its transmisson had to be mastered before light bulbs became everyday useful items --- the one invention and discovery made the other viaible and doible .

What "totally natural things" are you referring to, Ivan? Surely you're not trying to reference dark matter? And you're not referring to light or sound waves, a couple of the things that have been referenced here already. Radiation, perhaps, gamma? Not microwaves, they're far too large.

Almost anything you choose, however, aren't constants, meaning you can't count on their presence at any time you choose to go dowsing. Nor can you count on any particular wave/source/etc. to be actively striking and exciting a gold molecule. Even if you were able to accurately predict the path of such a force to allow you to dowse, and then somehow use these excited molecules to track a path to a piece of gold, it will rarely be the only piece of gold in any given area, and one can assume all gold in that space will be reacting similarly.

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

the stuff I am refering to is the type of matter that the super collider makes --it exist in nature naturally . --- sort of like the way "background radation" naturally exists in nature -- thats why gieger counters have to be "calibrated"to ignore the "constant" or " background radation" and only pick up the higher or "excessive" level radation .

or the way you ground "balance" a detector to not "see" the high minerals in a area as metal ---by resetting what is the "normal" mineral or background level --thus blinding it to those excessive minerals .

 

[ClonedSIM]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

the stuff I am refering to is the type of matter that the super collider makes --it exist in nature naturally . --- sort of like the way "background radation" naturally exists in nature -- thats why gieger counters have to be "calibrated"to ignore the "constant" or " background radation" and only pick up the higher or "excessive" level radation .

or the way you ground "balance" a detector to not "see" the high minerals in a area as metal ---by resetting what is the "normal" mineral or background level --thus blinding it to those excessive minerals .

I can understand the chatter with the background radiation you're referring to. The Earth is positively teeming with it, but in low levels for the most part. Is this what's causing the excitement in the gold molecules?

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

I'm not sure exactly what might be doing it by I do know that there are many things out there capible of possibly doing it -- so the basic theory behind it seems to be valid --that something could be exciting gold causing it to emit freqs --- we know there are freqs beyond the "range" of human hearing ---we do not "hear" them as such because of this but we still know thru various scientific methods that they "exist" ---now "general" logic of our 5 senses --tells us the if we can not see, smell, hear, taste or touch/feel something that it in effect doesn't "exist" --- by via our "sixth" sense --our intellect we are able to uncover what the other 5 "normal" senses say doesn't exist.--- this is "counter" to our standard 5 senses or "natural logic"--- but if one understands about science it makes perfect science "logic"

 

[ClonedSIM]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

I'm not sure exactly what might be doing it by I do know that there are many things out there capible of possibly doing it -- so the basic theory behind it seems to be valid --that something could be exciting gold causing it to emit freqs --- we know there are freqs beyond the "range" of human hearing ---we do not "hear" them as such because of this but we still know thru various scientific methods that they "exist" ---now "general" logic of our 5 senses --tells us the if we can not see, smell, hear, taste or touch/feel something that it in effect doesn't "exist" --- by via our "sixth" sense --our intellect we are able to uncover what the other 5 "normal" senses say doesn't exist.--- this is "counter" to our standard 5 senses or "natural logic"--- but if one understands about science it makes perfect science "logic"

Intersting theory, but you seem to be using rather circular logic.

If I can't see/hear/smell/taste/feel something, but I think it exists, it must exist? Less logic, more assumption, it seems.

The basic theory seems valid, I won't argue with you there, but a big issue is apparent when you start really looking into the theory. It's nice to say that there's something out there that excites the gold molecules to a point they create a frequency that can then be detected by a pair of dowsing rods held by a human, but it's a big leap.

If the science behind the theory were sound, then it could be applied in so many important ways that the dowsing element would be overshadowed completely. If gold molecules can be excited, then why can't something living be tracked using the same science? But we still use heat-sensitive equipment and dogs to locate survivors of earthquakes. It could be used to detect drugs hidden away in vehicles or people at border crossings, but it's not.

The question then, if it works as you're describing, is why? Why is it not employed it these many ways that would be much more beneficial to the human populace?

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

what science and inventions are "availible" to the general public is often "controlled" by wealthy and politically powerful folks that benefit from "properly" timed releases of technology --- if they do not control or own the technology and can't not enrich themselves off it --they block it -- until they do have "control" over it -- ( would you buy a 8 track player if you knew cassettes were coming out very soon?-- of course not --so they stall it until they are ready to phaze in the "new product"---since the same companies that made the one often make the "new" product as well.

we know "sound waves" which are simply freq --can excite glass molicules to the point that it can shatter a glass ala the "ella fitzgerald" is it live or is it memorex ad. --- its simply a matter of what is the freq and how much power has to be "pushed" to excite the gold molicules and what occurs when they are excited.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

what science and inventions are "availible" to the general public is often "controlled" by wealthy and politically powerful folks that benefit from "properly" timed releases of technology --- if they do not control or own the technology and can't not enrich themselves off it --they block it -- until they do have "control" over it -- ( would you buy a 8 track player if you knew cassettes were coming out very soon?-- of course not --so they stall it until they are ready to phaze in the "new product"---since the same companies that made the one often make the "new" product as well.

we know "sound waves" which are simply freq --can excite glass molicules to the point that it can shatter a glass ala the "ella fitzgerald" is it live or is it memorex ad. --- its simply a matter of what is the freq and how much power has to be "pushed" to excite the gold molicules and what occurs when they are excited.

What would be the point behind hiding a technology like this? Especially at this time of massive government spending and war involvement? We've taken another big leap into conspiracy theories now, and it's a totally new path. And, as far as technology goes, since there's no prerequisite for this type of technology, there'd be no point in hiding it to wait till some older tech is outmoded.

As far as the shattering glass goes, I believe it's the air molecules around the glass that vibrate the glass to the breaking point, rather than the glass molecules themselves vibrating. No matter though, since the desired result, whether glass or gold, is the same, to make the object move in some way.

But you're wrong when you say it's only a matter of the frequency and the amount of power which has to be pushed, because there is also a reception issue to look at. Even if the right frequency and power has been somehow generated, how does a brass dowsing rod "read" this molecular excitement with enough strength to physically move itself into the desired direction?

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

ah the brass / copper "rods" work by a differant type of method --in my point of view --- I thought were were merely chatting about could gold be excited to the point they could be found via a machine * --similar in some ways to the way a modern metal detector's electrical feild thats generated under its coil "reacts" with the gold --- its well know that higher freq levels are better suited for finding gold --specialized "natural gold" & nugget hunting detectors are set up to run at much higher freq than general all purpose detectors are. --- I can not help but wonder at what freq range and power output level would gold be come "exited" --and what the results of that would be. --

as far as the rods being "drawn" or moved --if held properly they will swing freely with no "drag" to fight --thus they can easily move----- ever see static electric energy jump from a person to a metal Object --like a door knob ? --the electrical energy built up is in efect seeking a metallic point of discharge ---thus the "snap" as it does so --it jumps from person to metal --the electrical energy in the human body is also drawn to metal -- and via the "conductive " rods it seeks a point of discharge -(thus turning the rods in the direct of the nearby metals as it seeks out a point of discharge) -- thus it finds the "nearby" metals its "drawn" towards it -- similar to the way a maget is drawn towards iron ---- (place a u shaped maget on its side near iron and watch it -- turn and point towards it )--- the feilds of magnatism and electric are closely interrelated to one another.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

ah the brass / copper "rods" work by a differant type of method --in my point of view --- I thought were were merely chatting about could gold be excited to the point they could be found via a machine * --similar in some ways to the way a modern metal detector's electrical feild thats generated under its coil "reacts" with the gold --- its well know that higher freq levels are better suited for finding gold --specialized "natural gold" & nugget hunting detectors are set up to run at much higher freq than general all purpose detectors are. --- I can not help but wonder at what freq range and power output level would gold be come "exited" --and what the results of that would be. --

Sorry Ivan! That's my fault, I should have been more clear. Now, I can agree with you that perhaps a machine could be developed to detect a frequency generated by a bit of gold. It'd have to be almighty powerful, and probably filled with electronics that haven't been prefected yet, but I don't doubt it'll someday hit the market.

as far as the rods being "drawn" or moved --if held properly they will swing freely with no "drag" to fight --thus they can easily move----- ever see static electric energy jump from a person to a metal Object --like a door knob ? --the electrical energy built up is in efect seeking a metallic point of discharge ---thus the "snap" as it does so --it jumps from person to metal --the electrical energy in the human body is also drawn to metal -- and via the "conductive " rods it seeks a point of discharge -(thus turning the rods in the direct of the nearby metals as it seeks out a point of discharge) -- thus it finds the "nearby" metals its "drawn" towards it -- similar to the way a maget is drawn towards iron ---- (place a u shaped maget on its side near iron and watch it -- turn and point towards it )--- the feilds of magnatism and electric are closely interrelated to one another.

As far as I'm concerned, you've got all the right ideas here; electric charges seeing a place to ground, magnetisim and electronics being related. No arguments there at all.

What I'm most curious about is, even if the body's electric charge is stong enough to be conducted down to the tip of a dowsing rod, it still wouldn't be strong enough to leave that point unless you held the rod very close to another metal object. Think about the carpet and the doorknob. You won't feel a shock if you stand on the other side of a room and reach toward a doorknob, no matter how much static charge you've built up. The span a static charge can jump is limited by a number of things; humidity, materials, distance, etc. Even magnetisim couldn't explain a long distance jump in little more than a strong static charge through the air, as I assume the "signal" must travel between the dowsing rod and the treasure?

Not to mention that brass and copper are non-magnetic, though they do conduct electricity well.

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

the electric impluse in the human body seeking a discharge point -- via the highly conductibe rods --- once nearby metal is detected -- causes them to turns in the direction towards the metal--- once over it as one starts to go over it it goes straight "across" causing the rods to cross since --as you walk over it the rods would "naturally" go towards it -- if it was directly behind you the rods would press to your chest in a effort to point their ends "towards" it behind you . --thus the rods cross as you "go" over the item. X matks the spot.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

the electric impluse in the human body seeking a discharge point -- via the highly conductibe rods --- once nearby metal is detected -- causes them to turns in the direction towards the metal--- once over it as one starts to go over it it goes straight "across" causing the rods to cross since --as you walk over it the rods would "naturally" go towards it -- if it was directly behind you the rods would press to your chest in a effort to point their ends "towards" it behind you . --thus the rods cross as you "go" over the item. X matks the spot.

Okay, just so I understand; the electricity generated by the human body travels through the arms and hands into the rods, and from there it goes...??

With all due respect, an electric charge entering a brass rod won't generate movement of any kind. Think about it like this. Overhead power lines are positively thrumming with electricity, far more than could ever be generated by a human body, yet they just hang there, no movement except with what is caused by a breeze. Power cords, for lamps, etc? Same thing. No movement, no matter how many of them you carry or how many times they cross.

The energy in the rods is of coure a real thing, but other than dropping back into the hand, it's not going to shoot out then end of the rod unless you get it very close to another metal object, but even then I don't see how it would move at all, unless moved by the hand holding it.

Also, how would the rod detect any metal underfoot in the first place? A brass rod isn't transformed into something else simply by carrying a small charge.

So, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I can tell, dowsing is the use of a rod with a small charge moving toward a piece of metal it has detected? But from what I'm aware, a charged piece of metal won't move on it's own, nor does it seem to be turned into any kind of detector because it's been electrified.

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

in a open circuit --the discharge point is completing the circuit -- thus giving it some where to go.--- electric energy wants to go "places" --not sit still --- while normally speaking the human body is thought of as a closed curcuit there is excess energy still . ---

overhead power lines are "shielded" with coatings that dampen their interaction --yet we still often have troulble with our detectors due to the "bleed off" of EMF from them messing up our detectors "electric feild" under its coil

around high power lines --one can "feel" the energy litterly "crackle" thru the air --- while the amount is faint in the human body it is there -- and much the way a shark "sniffs" out its prey via electrical impluses --a proper "attuned" human in a similar type manner -- sniffs out its prey (metals) as well .

 

[ClonedSIM]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

in a open circuit --the discharge point is completing the circuit -- thus giving it some where to go.--- electric energy wants to go "places" --not sit still --- while normally speaking the human body is thought of as a closed curcuit there is excess energy still . ---

You are right that the electricity can exit the tip of the dowsing rod in an attempt to complete a circuit, but the amount of electricity we're speaking about here is negligible, and certainly not powerful enough to travel long distances. So if the excess electricity the human body generates is what you're thinking is going to excite the gold molecules, the gold would have to be in the immediate vicinity of the tip of the rod. Even gold at your feet would be too far away to allow the electricity to close the circuit.

overhead power lines are "shielded" with coatings that dampen their interaction --yet we still often have troulble with our detectors due to the "bleed off" of EMF from them messing up our detectors "electric feild" under its coil

around high power lines --one can "feel" the energy litterly "crackle" thru the air --- while the amount is faint in the human body it is there -- and much the way a shark "sniffs" out its prey via electrical impluses --a proper "attuned" human in a similar type manner -- sniffs out its prey (metals) as well .

Right again. Actually, there's a great old rowhouse here in town I would love to hunt, but it's settled underneath a pair of massive transformers, and all I can manage is chatter anywhere near the place. But, my comments relating to the power lines were that the electricity inside them doesn't cause them to move. Along with the power cords I brought up. You seemed to claim that the electricity bleeing off the human body runs into the rods, which then turn to point towards your target, but if that's the basis for your claim, then surely other items loaded with electricity should move as well, like the rods?

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

thats my general thought as to how it baically works in theory -- now the exact way it operates ? is bit beyond me at this time.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

thats my general thought as to how it baically works in theory -- now the exact way it operates ? is bit beyond me at this time.

And I appreciate you time and explanations. I really wish there was a device, a tool of some sort, that could physically show the connection between dowsing rods and the target, if it exists.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

FACT: A harmonic signal line running under high tension power lines can no longer be detected with hand held Copper/Brass L-Rods within 15-20 feet of the power lines. The signal line can be detected and traced again 15-20 feet the other side of the high tension power lines. Dell

Okay, so high tension lines can't be found with a pair of rods when you're nearby them. Thanks for your input, Dell!

But, unlike Ivan, you believe signal lines are the key to dowsing. And, if I'm not mistaken, signal lines emanate away from a target and are detected by the rods?

 

[ClonedSIM]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

Af, you are mistaken, and nothing you repeated that I supposedly said, or what you said I believe, is correct.
If you can't accept it as it is posted, then don't reply. Dell

But if I said what you though you said is what that guy said was wrong, then the guy talking about what he said about his beliefs would be right, based on String Theory.......

Dell, you told us "A harmonic signal line running under high tension power lines can no longer be detected with hand held Copper/Brass L-Rods within 15-20 feet of the power lines." And I said that high tension lines can't be found with a pair of rods when you're near them.

You're right, I said the lines themselves couldn't be found, and you said it was the signal lines that couldn't be found.

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Nobody said anything about logic

I think the man made massive excess emf type energy that bleeds off the power lines screws up the "natural" signal lines much like it messes up a metal detectors "electrical feild" under itheir coil blocking them from being used too close near them --- a form of "overload" if you will.