Deus tecnology.

[Calabash Digger]

Ive been thinking about the design of the Deus and its features over say american made detectors. I made a comment in another forum about american companys running behind in the technology department. To be specific it was about the new garrett wireless system and how it only took them five years to develop it after the release of the deus. Do you guys think im out of line for saying american companys are behind the over seas companys in the development of detectors? I know some of you guys have multiple detectors and this not about one specific brand but about american made detectors in general.

 

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[vferrari]

I guess I am surprised that none of the American detector companies have tried to imitate the Deus in terms of its light weight, all wireless approach.

But as far as detector technology is concerned, I don't think the American companies are necessarily behind in detector technology from an overall standpoint. I think that other than recovery speed and to a lesser extent the multiple configurations (four operating frequencies and not just frequency offset)/customizations/programmability available, the pure metal detector technology portion of the Deus design is not necessary that much ahead of other American detectors in some respects. Some drawbacks to the Deus design vs. more traditional, yet high technology designs by other manufacturers include:

The Deus design with all the brains contained within the coil assembly does not readily lend itself to the user acquiring affordable specialty or accessory coils (solid coil, sniper coil, large coil, coaxial coil, etc.).

The Deus is highly configurable but not necessarily any more customizable from a programming standpoint as the higher end whites detectors.

There are some advantages (continuous sensitivity adjustments/tonality preferences) to hybrid analog/digital designs or pure analog designs such as some of the Whites, Fisher, and Tesoro machines vs. the pure digital design of the Deus. Similar to the tube vs. transistorized amp argument for audiophiles or the similar LP vs. CD vs. MP3 argument. [The point here is that advanced technology is not necessarily always considered better by the end user]

The Deus does not have simultaneous multifrequency capability like some of the minelab vlf machines (3030/Excal) which enhances salt beach water hunting and more precise Target ID.

The Deus, as a vlf machine, is not necessarily as deep as a minelab or garrett PI machine under highly mineralized soil conditions.

Not as affordable as some of the solid all purpose mid-range first texas machines (Fisher/Teknetics/Bounty Hunter). [not necessarily a technology thing, but there is something to be said about designing an affordable yet capable machine].

So if you look at a bunch of different technologies and approaches to detecting, Deus has America beat on taking full advantage of what wireless tech can do to revolutionize detecting, but lags in other areas of detector technology utilized by American companies.

Are you wrong to make that criticism, not if you are focusing on wireless technology aspect. From a total detector technology aspect, I think the American companies are ahead of XP in some respects.

Thanks for bringing this up, CD. This thread should result in some vibrant discussion.

 

[Calabash Digger]

When I say american companies I was not including minelab there ,the wireless aspect is a big part of the equation. The four frequency settings ,lightweight, updatable, adjustable recovery speed btw does a american machine exist that you can change the recovery speed? Like I said minelab was not it that equation as the 30/30 is the most highly advanced machine I know of, the fbs came from across the pond over in kangaroo land correct?

 

[Calabash Digger]

So I went and looked at the whites v3i it has multiple freq 2,2 7 and 22 . Looks like it weighs 4.4 pounds so it weighs twice as much as the Deus. To me weight has become another big selling factor as I swing alot and my elbow is starting to feel it.

 

[rick67]

Garrett annoyed me with there new wireless copy of Deteknix Wireless. Some of these companies really need to invest in engineers instead of marketeers.

 

[vferrari]

So I went and looked at the whites v3i it has multiple freq 2,2 7 and 22 . Looks like it weighs 4.4 pounds so it weighs twice as much as the Deus. To me weight has become another big selling factor as I swing alot and my elbow is starting to feel it.

I hear you. XP has definitely advanced wireless technology for metal detecting more than any american company and has taken advantage of that technology to provide the weight and modular advantages it brings to the table - no one else is doing what they are doing with wireless. The variable reactivity/recovery does exist but not as sophisticated as Deus on the First Texas machines (F75 and T2) with fast mode but at a more significant impact on depth than XP. Like I said, in wireless technology and detector responsiveness, XP is ahead of the game. The way XP has harnessed wireless has revolutionized the metal detector, but there are some metal detector "technologies" where other detector companies are ahead of XP. Who's ahead overall? I'd have to say XP at this point, but it is debatable. Should be a great discussion. Best overall detector out there - Deus IMO. But I do own other detectors because they do specific things better than the Deus as I mentioned above - I still always bring the Deus along even if I bring a "specialty" detector - if for no other reason than its compact and makes a convenient backup - so that tells you that the Deus is my #1 general purpose detector.

 

[Deft Tones]

V3i has wireless tech. Just not the coil, but whoop-de-friggin-do. Deus wired their new coils to the shaft...so they have regressed.

V3i, It's more adjustable to end user configuration....by far.

V3i, it's twice as heavy. If you're 80 yrs old and frail, or young but weak, then the weight may be an issue. I take breaks when I get tired. Some days I can swing the V all day, other times only 5 hours... it's really not a competition, so take a short rest!

I see the Deus as a competition machine...like a rally hunter- find it before anyone else and do it fast as you can.

If it's a sprint the Deus will beat most any machine in current production. If it's a marathon the Deus falls behind after some time.

But the V3i does something that the Deus does not. It has an uncanny ability to prioritize multiple signals based on dominance. Often, but not always, the dominate signal is a coin and so this works to our advantage. I find many colocated targets and mixed coin spills with the V3i and have seen this first hand regularly.

Something else...the iron resolution on the Deus sucks compared to the V3i. With the V3i, if I just want to cherry pick out most of the square nails on a site, I can and have done that. Good luck with the Deus cherry picking nails by VDI/size....or just basic relic hunting for iron and being selective. Deus iron resolution is what, 0-10. V3i is 85 points more precise.

There are other things I've become aware of too.

But the bottom line is the V3i is not behind the Deus in tech....just appearance. The V3i can do almost anything the Deus can except large coil recovery speeds. Can't match it there. Deus has that on lock at the moment. But I switch to a shooter coil on the V3i and then the Deus can't compete well. The Deus wireless tech is a limitation for Deus as well as a strong point. So who's fault is it that a shooter coil can best any Deus in very high trash and a Deus user has no answer? Not my fault!

 

[wingmaster]

There are detectors out that can stand toe to toe with the dues any day of the week and some better, as far as the wireless part goes the cost of the battery replacement alone is enough to put me off. If my batteries go dead I can slap in more which takes minutes and away I go and yes recovery speed adjustment on detectors has been there before the Dues, they wasn't first by a long shot. HH

 

[Calabash Digger]

The whites v3i kinda slipped under my radar I was put off awhile back because I read the learning curve was awful is this true deft tones? For me im in the sprint game at the moment imo numbers are what counts in my game because the odds go up of tagging a good relic. You are correct wingmaster about standind toe toe on performance, the CTX 30/30 is one that stands toe to toe with the deus and does some things better such as deep target ID . It will id a 12 silver half in my garden with the vdi in clean ground ,the deus number at that depth is flawed but the tone is great and experienced user would dig it anyday. I will say this maybe the v3i falls here with the ctx maybe it doesnt. In my test garden the ctx performs very very close to the deus, the deus being the faster of the 2 and imo seeing mid conducters better. For relic hunting there is no JUSTIFICATION for me to add the added weigth 5.5 pounds of the ctx to my arm, does the whites (4.4 pounds) fall in the same comparision dont know havent had one YET. Its a good disscussion but it like politics can blow up anytime.n lol OMT the rechargeble batterys is not a put off what are they to replace 50.00 or something and guys have original units with the original batterys in some of them 5 years old its actually a BIG plus and you said there are detectors that stand toe to toe which ones and why?

 

[Carolina Tom]

Hey CD, you are right on target. I got mine over 2.5 years ago because of the light weight and wireless operation... and forward thinking (5 year warrantee, didn't hurt either).

USA based companies build product for the average American detectorist. That guy is old and not very tech saavy, he has always used Brand X, and loves it. Brand X keeps selling 5 Lbs. detectors and everyone is fat and happy.

Until Deus spoiled the party!

 

[Calabash Digger]

the light weight alone is a good selling point. I like your summary of things .

 

[Carolina Tom]

the light weight alone is a good selling point. I like your summary of things .

I know you remember the time when everyone laughed at the first Japanese cars to hit our shores...

The laughing seems a bit muffled now...

 

[Deft Tones]

Yes, the learning curve on the V3i is long....to long for many. And for me that was all I knew for several years as I didn't start with anything else. Didn't feel I need to. Took much study to unlock the machine to certain sites, but when it happened it was like a video game rewarding one with a great big "Achievement Unlocked!"

Soon I wanted something for the rain. Enter ATPro. Good machine that hunts great, and ergonomics suck.... and not better than the V3i.

Then I wanted to try a Deus. Light weight being the number one criteria. Rainproof was a close second. If I had not seen the ws4's dunked in a fishbowl and continue to operate I'd probably not have purchased. Great machine picking non-ferrous out of ferrous to a point. But again, it's not a V3i in so many ways.

Now I have a Minelab, arguably the best one they ever made, and the game goes on... already with less than 25 hours on it I see it has better tone ID at depth than the V3i. And it punches deep...probably alot deeper coil for coil in comparison to any machine I own. And easily the best low/mid conductor machine in my stable. I have higher hopes for the Minelab on my type of typical hunts than I do the Deus.

I don't dislike the Deus overall, I just see it as a specialty machine that does two things really well - beep on non-ferrous in a sea of ferrous, and do it fast as an operator would care to swing.

My testing and learning is always in progress.

 

[Deft Tones]

I agree that the battery is not an issue. They seem to have good batteries inside. Time will inform me better on that via experience.

Honestly though, if you can afford a Ferrari you can afford the maintenance - or you shouldn't own one, IMO.

 

[HuntinDog]

I've had Garretts and Whites before the Deus
I passed on the V3i because of the learning curve.
Passed on the 3030 because of weight and $$
I've had my Deus since 2012 and have had no problems with batteries.
I've always liked to have good strong batteries in my machines for the hunts and would change them after 3-4 hunts.
How many AA batteries would I have purchased in the last four years buying batteries every other week??
Duracell Coppertop Alkaline AA Batteries @ .40 each X 8 batteries X 26 changes per year X 4 = $357.76 !!
Well worth the $50 for a new battery from XP America.
When My hunting partner had to send his Deus in for repairs and had to use my MXT as a backup, he had his arm in a sling for two weeks because of shoulder strain.
As for Ferrous next to Non-Ferrous...
Pictures are worth more than words.
8"+ and still knew it was a digable....

 

[Iron Buzz]

If Deus is the only non-USA company that we are comparing with, I'm not sure this is an American vs non-American (European?) question as much as it is an engineering and corporate question. XP did make a corporate decision to apply as much new technology to the Deus as they could... wireless, built-in rechargeable polymer batteries, novel telescoping shaft, and cutting weight where ever they could, multiple frequencies and selectable recovery rate, etc. But any American company could have made those same changes, but there is a risk involved in adopting the latest and greatest. XP took that risk. I'm sure all American companies are watching closely.

 

[vferrari]

There are detectors out that can stand toe to toe with the dues any day of the week and some better, as far as the wireless part goes the cost of the battery replacement alone is enough to put me off. If my batteries go dead I can slap in more which takes minutes and away I go and yes recovery speed adjustment on detectors has been there before the Dues, they wasn't first by a long shot. HH

Not sure what you are driving at here regarding battery replacement. Don't expect to have to replace the batteries for the useful life of the coil or other accessories. If the battery prematurely fails, then covered by a generous warranty. But agree that there are detectors that can go toe to toe with the deus on certain tasks given the right coil and the right operator

 

[vferrari]

Hey CD, you are right on target. I got mine over 2.5 years ago because of the light weight and wireless operation... and forward thinking (5 year warrantee, didn't hurt either).

USA based companies build product for the average American detectorist. That guy is old and not very tech saavy, he has always used Brand X, and loves it. Brand X keeps selling 5 Lbs. detectors and everyone is fat and happy.

Until Deus spoiled the party!

Well said. I still wonder why no one is trying to imitate it.

 

[Calabash Digger]

which goes back to what carolina tom said.

If Deus is the only non-USA company that we are comparing with, I'm not sure this is an American vs non-American (European?) question as much as it is an engineering and corporate question. XP did make a corporate decision to apply as much new technology to the Deus as they could... wireless, built-in rechargeable polymer batteries, novel telescoping shaft, and cutting weight where ever they could, multiple frequencies and selectable recovery rate, etc. But any American company could have made those same changes, but there is a risk involved in adopting the latest and greatest. XP took that risk. I'm sure all American companies are watching closely.

 

[OutdoorAdv]

Minelab is not an American company, it is an Australian company. So they would not be included in the American companies.

In the mid 1990s when I started detecting, you either bought a Whites or a Fisher! I bought all Whites for years back then and they were fantastic machines. About 5 years ago when I got back into the hobby, I bought a v3i. I remained brand loyal to Whites since all the machines I ever owned were theirs and they did great. I swung that v3i for 2 years and knew it well. It's been a while, but if I remember correctly the v3i does have a Recovery settings that is similar to Reactivity. It was a great machine. I realized there were other machines out there that suit my relic hunting needs better and got a Teknetics T2SE and a few weeks later I sold the v3i. About a year ago I added the Deus to my arsenal and a few months ago, a Minelab GPX. I don't think American companies are behind in technology in regards to metal detectors. Whites, Garret and First Texas (Fisher, Teknetics and Bounty Hunter) all make some fantastic machines. While I might prefer the Deus now, it's for reasons other than not being able to find a US company with technology that satisfies me. The Deus, T2 and GPX just happen to be a deadly combination for me and can handle any type of hunting I want to do. So really I own a French, Australian and US made machine and they all fit different uses for me... I just happen to use the Deus now for most of my hunting.

Hey... Just last weekend the T2 with the 5" coil sniped a KG from a nail bed that the Deus was not able to.... That lead to excavating a pit section that got me a cut 8 reales. Had I randomly not decided to bring my T2 along that day with the Deus, that hunt would have been pretty mediocre.