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Did OME lost the Black Swan case?

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trinidad

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Yes, in the perfect world, the Supreme Court might avoid the case. One little problem... certain impropriety by the U.S. Dept. of State, run by Hillary Clinton, who's a personal acquaintance of Goold, in fact, one of his co-horts previously. Odyssey will not let the wikileaks issue disappear, especially in an election year where the democrat party might want to throw out Obama and hoist Hillary in his place. The whole issue will sleep quietly until 2013.
 

The bottom line is that the coins are still here in Florida and not on their way to Spain. :laughing9:
 

OME was denied it's petition for an "En Banc" hearing before the 11th Curcuit Court of Appeals (federal). It clearly will appeal to the US Supreme Court, but as Signumops stated, it is unlikely to be heard soon if at all.
 

Trinidad, surely by now you must know that one can not trust the Spanish press in matters pertaining to the Mercedes as the degree of disinformation is absolutely amazing, beyond belief. Sometimes they inadvertently publish the truth. The Spanish press has been the judge, prosecutor, bailiff, stenographer and jury of this process and Odyssey has been unjustly accused and convicted since day one. If Odyssey were the pirates they are painted to be, nobody would of known that the Mercedes was ever found, no Admiralty courts would have heard the case and the coins would all have been sold four years ago. The fact that the case is in the hands of the American judicial system says a great deal about the integrity and high moral standards of its directors and specifically of Greg Stemm.

The ruling of today is of minimal consequence and the case will surely follow its natural course and be heard by the Supreme Court due to the seriousness of the issues involved, sovereign immunity, claims by two sovereigns, descendants claims plus more importantly of all one would think that if a court decides not to hear a case because it does not have jurisdiction, how can it assume jurisdiction and order Odyssey to hand over to Spain the coins? It either has or it doesn't have jurisdiction, one doesn't have to be a judicial scholar to figure this out. I was talking with a very distinguished law professor about this case today and he said this case has the makings of a typical Supreme Court case, he said "it has all the sex appeal!" and I think he's right, that it does. The odds are in favor of Odyssey, it's a home game for them and justice will prevail…at the end, like all good stories do. This case will set an important judicial precedent and the Supreme Court will see the light.
 

Panfilo said:
Trinidad, surely by now you must know that one can not trust the Spanish press in matters pertaining to the Mercedes as the degree of disinformation is absolutely amazing, beyond belief. Sometimes they inadvertently publish the truth. The Spanish press has been the judge, prosecutor, bailiff, stenographer and jury of this process and Odyssey has been unjustly accused and convicted since day one. If Odyssey were the pirates they are painted to be, nobody would of known that the Mercedes was ever found, no Admiralty courts would have heard the case and the coins would all have been sold four years ago. The fact that the case is in the hands of the American judicial system says a great deal about the integrity and high moral standards of its directors and specifically of Greg Stemm.

The ruling of today is of minimal consequence and the case will surely follow its natural course and be heard by the Supreme Court due to the seriousness of the issues involved, sovereign immunity, claims by two sovereigns, descendants claims plus more importantly of all one would think that if a court decides not to hear a case because it does not have jurisdiction, how can it assume jurisdiction and order Odyssey to hand over to Spain the coins? It either has or it doesn't have jurisdiction, one doesn't have to be a judicial scholar to figure this out. I was talking with a very distinguished law professor about this case today and he said this case has the makings of a typical Supreme Court case, he said "it has all the sex appeal!" and I think he's right, that it does. The odds are in favor of Odyssey, it's a home game for them and justice will prevail…at the end, like all good stories do. This case will set an important judicial precedent and the Supreme Court will see the light.
Click to expand...
You have to kidding, High moral standards, specifically Greg Stemm :laughing11: If he was allowed he would dredge every shipwreck.
Panfilo, like it or not, the coins are going back to Spain, The US government will make sure of that.
Ossy
 

The United States did not ratify UNESCO, and, I see that the United States de-funded UNESCO several weeks ago to the tune of 20 million (maybe billion... just pocket change). Did Australia ratify UNESCO? How about Spain? Did they ratify UNESCO?

Fortunately, the United States National Park Service has absolutely nothing to say about this issue with the Mercedes, or you might be right.
 

Ossy, how about we make a bet? Here’s the way things will happen in my crystal ball view of the future for these coins: the Supreme Court will hear the case as it is a classical case that interests the High court and the Court will rule that though the Mercedes was indeed a state owned and operated ship, It was not in a military mission but in a commercial one and therefore Spain can not claim sovereign Immunity. The court will award Odyssey 60% of the coins, the descendants 30% and the King 10%. This will create chaos in Spain, that is for certain, as everybody and their brother there believe the coins are being packed in boxes ready to be shipped to the Ministry of Culture next Monday.
Regarding Mr. Stemm, he has entered an area where few companies have gone, deep ocean recoveries with very professional archaeological methods following the strictest guidelines. That is why he has been able to contract with one of the most prominent maritime governments of all time, the UK.
You have perhaps not had the opportunity to read and study the first two volumes of Oceans Odyssey, I suggest you do so Ossy with an open mind and you will be most pleasantly surprised with the high level of professionalism these publications offer, second to none.
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/arts-entertainment/book-review-oceans-odyssey-151745.html
Panfilo
 

Panfilo said:
Ossy, how about we make a bet? Here’s the way things will happen in my crystal ball view of the future for these coins: the Supreme Court will hear the case as it is a classical case that interests the High court and the Court will rule that though the Mercedes was indeed a state owned and operated ship, It was not in a military mission but in a commercial one and therefore Spain can not claim sovereign Immunity. The court will award Odyssey 60% of the coins, the descendants 30% and the King 10%. This will create chaos in Spain, that is for certain, as everybody and their brother there believe the coins are being packed in boxes ready to be shipped to the Ministry of Culture next Monday.
Regarding Mr. Stemm, he has entered an area where few companies have gone, deep ocean recoveries with very professional archaeological methods following the strictest guidelines. That is why he has been able to contract with one of the most prominent maritime governments of all time, the UK.
You have perhaps not had the opportunity to read and study the first two volumes of Oceans Odyssey, I suggest you do so Ossy with an open mind and you will be most pleasantly surprised with the high level of professionalism these publications offer, second to none.
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/arts-entertainment/book-review-oceans-odyssey-151745.html
Panfilo
Click to expand...
I will have a read Panfilo, But the way I see it , It will be rejected by the High Court. There is more behind the scenes with the US government
than you think.
Ossy
 

Panfilo said:
Ossy, how about we make a bet? Here’s the way things will happen in my crystal ball view of the future for these coins: the Supreme Court will hear the case as it is a classical case that interests the High court and the Court will rule that though the Mercedes was indeed a state owned and operated ship, It was not in a military mission but in a commercial one and therefore Spain can not claim sovereign Immunity. The court will award Odyssey 60% of the coins, the descendants 30% and the King 10%. This will create chaos in Spain, that is for certain, as everybody and their brother there believe the coins are being packed in boxes ready to be shipped to the Ministry of Culture next Monday.
Regarding Mr. Stemm, he has entered an area where few companies have gone, deep ocean recoveries with very professional archaeological methods following the strictest guidelines. That is why he has been able to contract with one of the most prominent maritime governments of all time, the UK.
You have perhaps not had the opportunity to read and study the first two volumes of Oceans Odyssey, I suggest you do so Ossy with an open mind and you will be most pleasantly surprised with the high level of professionalism these publications offer, second to none.
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/arts-entertainment/book-review-oceans-odyssey-151745.html
Panfilo
Click to expand...
The book review does not mention the Black swan? or has any photos! Why?
Maybe Greg Stemm needs to show the world all the evidence he has from the Black Swan. He doesn't have anything to hide, does he :dontknow:
Ossy
 

Sarcasm Ossy, sarcasm! Hide what? The courts have all the videos and a complete photomosaic of the dispersion area of unprecedented detail and clarity, nothing to hide. That question if for you to ask Mr. Stemm. but as the Black Swan case is still before the courts, one would suspect that publishing archaeological reports is a bit premature. I have it from a good source that work is underway for a third volume of this illustrative and fascinating series.
Panfilo
 

What sounds as a sarcasm it´s to request publications from OME almost in months, and there is never such a hurry for publicactions from an academic excavation.
 

trinidad said:
What sounds as a sarcasm it´s to request publications from OME almost in months, and there is never such a hurry for publicactions from an academic excavation.
Click to expand...
They looted the Mercedes in 2008 !
 

Two corrections Ossy, the year was 2007 when Odyssey successfully recovered the 594,000 coins in an impressive textbook case operation from international waters in what was by mortal standards, a commercial mission of a Spanish frigate in times of peace. I’m sure that a very educated and cultured person as you Ossy believes that a person (in this case a company) is innocent until proven guilty or are you also, as is all the Spanish press, of the conviction it’s the other way around? The trial is not over Ossy, keep repeating that please.

Two questions Ossy, if the Mercedes is such an important wreck as the Spanish lawyers have made it to be in the courts, the lost grail of Spain’s cultural patrimony, why the hell did they not try to recover it after Claudio announced to the world 20 years ago he had found it? One logical answer will suffice. One gets the impression that this is an opportunistic strategy, let the free enterprise companies and their investors go out, research and recover the important wrecks (with lots of gold and silver)and then we’ll beat them in court claiming all commerce between the Indies and was done on sovereign immune ships, piece of cake.

Some of us believe and have great faith in the American justice system and that right will prevail, where black is black and white is white and a military mission is when governments send soldiers and guns on a ship to war and a commercial mission is where you transport women and children who pay a fare and you transport private cargo, alpaca wool copper and tin ingots. So Ossy my friend, please don’t open that champagne bottle you’ve been saving for the celebration just yet, it ain’t over.
Panfilo
 

Panfilo said:
Two corrections Ossy, the year was 2007 when Odyssey successfully recovered the 594,000 coins in an impressive textbook case operation from international waters in what was by mortal standards, a commercial mission of a Spanish frigate in times of peace. I’m sure that a very educated and cultured person as you Ossy believes that a person (in this case a company) is innocent until proven guilty or are you also, as is all the Spanish press, of the conviction it’s the other way around? The trial is not over Ossy, keep repeating that please.

Two questions Ossy, if the Mercedes is such an important wreck as the Spanish lawyers have made it to be in the courts, the lost grail of Spain’s cultural patrimony, why the hell did they not try to recover it after Claudio announced to the world 20 years ago he had found it? One logical answer will suffice. One gets the impression that this is an opportunistic strategy, let the free enterprise companies and their investors go out, research and recover the important wrecks (with lots of gold and silver)and then we’ll beat them in court claiming all commerce between the Indies and was done on sovereign immune ships, piece of cake.

Some of us believe and have great faith in the American justice system and that right will prevail, where black is black and white is white and a military mission is when governments send soldiers and guns on a ship to war and a commercial mission is where you transport women and children who pay a fare and you transport private cargo, alpaca wool copper and tin ingots. So Ossy my friend, please don’t open that champagne bottle you’ve been saving for the celebration just yet, it ain’t over.
Panfilo
Click to expand...
Oops 2007 :read2: Panfilo as a Colombian what's your interest :icon_scratch: Did Claudio announce to world of his discovery :dontknow:
And how did he do this? Any proof? was he taken seriously? Was it announced to the Spanish public?
I have plenty of Cava and have open a bottle or two, and have plenty to open up, when artifacts get back to Spain.
Ossy
 

As a Colombian my interests are several Ossy but first and foremost some of us here in this part of the world believe the battles for independence were won by us not Spain. Exactly 200 years ago last month we celebrated that event, some of our families died in this endeavor and some of our families signed the declaration of Independence. Some of our families gave their sons, their fortunes, their Spanish nobility titles to fight alongside Bolivar. We too drank champagne last month.
When Spain went after the Galga and the Juno, ships that have yet to be found, it showed the world they were getting ready to restart the “Reconquista”, “let’s go after the 8,000 wrecks we left behind in the Americas.” Clearly a State policy that is masquerading under the auspices of the UNESCO Convention. We feel that the imperialist position that Spain has adhered to is a threat to OUR underwater cultural patrimony and so do more than 40 million Colombians, excluding obviously a handful of sold out archo-Nazis that promoted this nefarious excuse for a Convention. The only reason Colombia never adhered to nor can it adhere to the Convention is that these fine folks were informed by our lawyers that we would file charges for Diplomatic treason should they so much as propose it.
 

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