ENO TNEC ...ONE CENT Indian reverse...?

Nana40 · Aug 19, 2014

I found this neat coin last week. I posted it on FB and Thom says he thinks it's a double strike. I know nothing about it other than that. I don't even dare try to clean it. Any further comments are more than welcome on it.

The other Indian cent I dug the same day....different hole. It's 1906.
Thanks a bunch,
Nana

BigWaveDave · Aug 19, 2014

bizarre

Breezie · Aug 19, 2014

Nana, I'm not the coin person, but I remember hearing about a 1909 Indian Head that was a 'broad strike' when a coin gets stuck in the die and gets struck by another coin.

I did find this question & answer snippet and below is the conversation and website. It's located about half way down the page:
Coined For Money

Just went through my change and found a poor condition 1909 Indian Head penny with the imprint backwards - ie 1909 is in reverse and 'One Cent' is "tnec eno". Is this some type of fake coin make or something real that happened? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!
poor condition 1909 Indian Head penny with the imprint backwards - ie 1909 is in reverse and 'One Cent' is "tnec eno". Is this some type of fake coin make or something real that happened?

This could be a Broadstrike error it happens when coins get stuck in the die and is struck by another coin.It needs to seen by expert either online or in a coin shop. If real it's about $300.00. Unfortunately it can easily be faked.

Super Neat find

Breezie

fyrffytr1 · Aug 19, 2014

How thick is it compared to a regular Indian head? It almost looks like the imprint of another coin in the crust that covers it.

Breezie · Aug 19, 2014

fyrffytr1 said:
How thick is it compared to a regular Indian head? It almost looks like the imprint of another coin in the crust that covers it.

That's a good point. Nana, you may need to clean it enough to see if the impression is in the crud or the actual coin.

Breezie

Nana40 · Aug 19, 2014

Just took a picture of the side view. Odd coin on the left. It's def fatter with all that crud on it. lol I did go back over the hole to make sure nothing else was there.
Thanks Breezie for the link.

OH I wanna clean it SO bad! I got my toothpick set on ready. :laughing7:

ModernMiner · Aug 19, 2014

I'm dying to find out what you have there Nanner's! Cool stuff down there in Bama. :thumbsup:

Turtleman would be proud of you. :tongue3:

Neat find,
DUHg

Nana40 · Aug 19, 2014

I think Turtleman is KinTucky born, but I bet he'd still be proud. lol

Nana40 · Aug 19, 2014

oh...and thank ye. :tongue3:

Ocean7 · Aug 19, 2014

I believe that was two Indian heads that got stuck together. The patina on the one developed the imprint that was on the other coin.
If you were to carefully use wet baking soda paste and a toothbrush, I think you would find that the real coin lies beneath that
crude. Be careful to keep checking coin and not rub off actual coin markings. I've done this to many IH's and sometimes the
result has even surprised me but the caveat is this: some corroded copper coins will lose all markings using this technique
because they are pretty much destroyed by the elements. Those coins are toast when dug.

this coin is a good example.

This coin is a surprised me example after cleaning.

Breezie · Aug 19, 2014

Nana, what is the crud? Is it mud or some type of corrosion?

Seems to me if it were stuck to another coin to make that impression, the other coin would have been in the hole. I don't really know, but more or less thinking out loud.

Breezie

ModernMiner · Aug 20, 2014

Breezie said:
Nana, what is the crud? Is it mud or some type of corrosion?

Seems to me if it were stuck to another coin to make that impression, the other coin would have been in the hole. I don't really know, but more or less thinking out loud.

Breezie

I agree with Breezie. It sounds like there was no other coin there to make that imprint. :dontknow:

How about cleaning that coin with some water and a light rub? You're killing me! :laughing7:

-DUG-

Nana40 · Aug 20, 2014

Just looks like compact dirt...lots of it, eh? hahaha... And I re-checked the hole...nothing else there.
That toothpick is getting closer and closer! :happysmiley:

If it's only worth $300, if it were to be a double strike, the only thing I have to lose is the fact that it was a neat find, huh....and MM's plane ticket to Bama and his Ruth's Chris meal. :tongue3:

Thanks, ya'll.

Breezie · Aug 20, 2014

Nana, be sure to double check this, but from what I understand hot hydrogen peroxide soaking bath is 'supposed' to remove crud on Indian Head pennies without causing harm.

Check this out:
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/cleaning-preservation/22115-cleaning-large-cents.html

Breezie

olroy70 · Aug 20, 2014

Ocean7 said:
I believe that was two Indian heads that got stuck together. The patina on the one developed the imprint that was on the other coin.
If you were to carefully use wet baking soda paste and a toothbrush, I think you would find that the real coin lies beneath that
crude. Be careful to keep checking coin and not rub off actual coin markings. I've done this to many IH's and sometimes the
result has even surprised me but the caveat is this: some corroded copper coins will lose all markings using this technique
because they are pretty much destroyed by the elements. Those coins are toast when dug.
View attachment 1040759 this coin is a good example. View attachment 1040760 This coin is a surprised me example after cleaning.

even the date change. I think I liked it better when it was 1871

Ocean7 · Aug 20, 2014

olroy70 said:
even the date change. I think I liked it better when it was 1871

no these are two different examples of two diff. coins - obviously!

Mainiac · Aug 20, 2014

A 'broadstruck' coin is a coin that was struck outside of the collar, or coining chamber. The collar is a flat steel plate with a hole in it that prevents the coin planchet from spreading under the pressure of the coin press. Evidence of a broadstruck coin would include a slightly larger diameter than a normal coin, and for those denominations with edge reeds, there would be no edge reeding, as the reeding is imparted by the collar. The description that Breezie gave for a 'broadstruck' coin is actually the definition of what is called 'die cap', where a struck coin is not ejected by the ejection mechanism, and remains stuck to the die. As the next coin is struck, the die cap remains stuck to the die and leaves a reversed impression on the next coin, which is called a 'brockage'.

The Indian Cent in the OP does not appear to be a die cap, nor is it a brockage, and it certainly is not a broadstrike. I believe that Ocean7 is closer to the answer, in that a chemical process involving the very reactive copper of the Indian Cent, mineral deposits in the soil, and the metal of the second object left a compacted and reversed impression on whatever the material of the other object is.

Nana40 · Aug 21, 2014

OK. So I did a little cleaning with the peroxide method. I REALLY think it's lead. It's still a bit fatter than a normal cent, has a white patina and is still a tad heavier than it feels it should be. Some one's try at a counterfeit I suppose? I have however learned a LOT about coins through your comments and I thank you so very much!

......and I still think it's neat.
Thanks a bunch!!
Nana

Breezie · Aug 21, 2014

Nana, I'm glad you cleaned it and now know what you have. Even though it's not the big bucks coin, it's still a SUPER NEAT find! Since it is lead, I wonder if it could be some type of 'camp trench art?'

Can you see anything on the front of the coin or is it flat/smooth?

Breezie

rodarian · Aug 21, 2014

Now this is odd. I have what looks to be the reverse side of a quarter and it looks allot like your item, only it's a quarter. Everything is backwards and i believe it is lead. Also, there is nothing on the obverse side except what looks to be grooves from something striking it.