Equinox 800 weight do carbon fiber rods make any significant reduction in weight?

[pulltabfelix]

I have a Coiltek 10 x 5" Nox coil coming in this week (hopefully) and that will be a nice reduction in weight by replacing my stock coil.
I am wondering if replacing the stock rods will reduce the weight further by any noticeable amounts?

Anyone have so me experience in this option?

 

[sphillips]

I have a Coiltek 10 x 5" Nox coil coming in this week (hopefully) and that will be a nice reduction in weight by replacing my stock coil.
I am wondering if replacing the stock rods will reduce the weight further by any noticeable amounts?

Anyone have so me experience in this option?

wondering the same. 800 doesn’t weigh much, but cg is way forward. I reamed out a piece of 3/4” id pvc to fit the aft end of the rod and added some lead weight to the aft tip. Cg moved aft so now my arm doesn’t get tired as quickly

 

[Truth]

I got one and I?m not sure but it?s cool as hell

 

[sgoss66]

pulltabfelix --

I'd like to try and provide an answer to your question.

You note that you are getting the 10" x 5" Coiltek coil (426g/15.02 oz.), to replace your stock Minelab 11" coil (510g/17.99 oz.), and you noted that this will give you a "nice weight reduction." Indeed, you'll be trimming 3.03 oz. of "coil weight" (a roughly 17% reduction in coil weight) as a result of this switch.

Meanwhile, you asked about a carbon-fiber shaft, and whether it would reduce weight further, by "any noticeable amount." The answer is yes. The stock Minelab shaft weighs roughly 10.25 oz.; my equivalent two-piece carbon-fiber shaft weights roughly 7.05 oz. -- so, you would be trimming ANOTHER 3.2 oz. of weight from the unit (a roughly 31% reduction in shaft weight), by switching to my standard, two-piece shaft. In other words, you'd trim essentially the same amount of weight (actually just a shade more) by switching from the stock shaft to my carbon-fiber shaft, as you will by switching from the stock 11" coil to the Coiltek 10" x 5".

Additionally, though, what sphillips noted is absolutely correct -- and probably even more important, in terms of how "comfortably" your Equinox feels, when swinging. The issue with the Equinox, in terms of why it feels uncomfortable to some after swinging it for a few hours, is that it is "nose heavy," or as sphillips put it, the center of gravity is MUCH too far forward. In other words, it is IMBALANCED. So, ADDING some weight, at the butt end of the shaft, works to restore balance -- it makes the machine less "nose heavy" by moving the center of gravity back toward the handle. AND THUS, though it might seem a bit counterintuitive, it actually makes the machine more comfortable to swing.

IF simple weight reduction is what you are interested in, then you can certainly achieve that by switching shafts. Again, you shave roughly 3 oz. by switching coils, and you'd shaft another roughly 3 oz. by switching shafts. BUT -- again -- if "discomfort" is the issue, then from a shaft builder's perspective, the BEST approach is TWO-FOLD. FIRST, reduce overall weight as much as possible, and then ADD counterweighting, to the butt end of the shaft, to achieve balance -- as BALANCE is, dare I say, even MORE important with respect to a comfortably swinging machine, than simple weight reduction. Both are important, but a lightweight but nose-heavy machine can STILL be a fatiguing, uncomfortable machine for many detectorists (the Equinox being "case in point").

I hope this helps answer your question...

Steve

 

[sgoss66]

pulltabfelix --

I'd like to try and provide an answer to your question. You note that you are getting the 10" x 5" Coiltek coil (426g/15.02 oz.), to replace your stock Minelab 11" coil (510g/17.99 oz.), and you noted that this will give you a "nice weight reduction." Indeed, you'll be trimming 3.03 oz. of "coil weight" (a roughly 17% reduction in coil weight) as a result of this switch.

Meanwhile, you asked about a carbon-fiber shaft, and whether it would reduce weight further, by "any noticeable amount." The short answer is yes, it will. The stock Minelab shaft weighs roughly 10.25 oz.; my equivalent two-piece carbon-fiber shaft weights roughly 7.05 oz. -- so, you would be trimming ANOTHER 3.2 oz. of weight from the unit (a roughly 31% reduction in shaft weight), by switching to my standard, two-piece shaft. In other words, you'd trim essentially the same amount of weight (actually just a shade more) by switching from the stock shaft to my carbon-fiber shaft, as you will by switching from the stock 11" coil to the Coiltek 10" x 5".

Additionally, though, what sphillips noted is also absolutely correct -- and probably even more important, in terms of how "comfortably" your Equinox feels, when swinging. The issue with the Equinox, in terms of why it feels uncomfortable to some after swinging it for a few hours, is that it is "nose heavy," or as sphillips put it, the center of gravity is MUCH too far forward. In other words, it is IMBALANCED. So, ADDING some weight, at the butt end of the shaft, works to restore balance -- it makes the machine less "nose heavy" by moving the center of gravity back toward the handle. AND THUS, though it might seem a bit counterintuitive, it actually makes the machine more comfortable to swing.

IF simple weight reduction is solely what you are interested in, then you can certainly achieve that by switching shafts. Again, you shave roughly 3 oz. by switching coils, and you'd shaft another roughly 3 oz. by switching shafts. BUT -- again -- if "discomfort" is the issue for you, then from a shaft builder's perspective, the BEST approach is TWO-FOLD. FIRST, reduce overall weight as much as possible, and then ADD counterweighting, to the butt end of the shaft, to achieve balance -- as BALANCE is, dare I say, even MORE important with respect to a comfortably swinging machine, than simple weight reduction. Both are important, but a lightweight but nose-heavy machine can STILL be a fatiguing, uncomfortable machine for many detectorists (the Equinox being "case in point").

I hope this helps answer your question...

Steve

 

[sphillips]

BUT, having said that, one day when the bank account allows, I will buy one of Steve's carbon fiber rods for my 800, just not able yet.

 

[smokeythecat]

I have heard good things about Steve's after market rods. That said, adding a counter weight to the back of the machine seems like adding an anchor with chain to your car to throw out if the brakes don't stop. The machine is nose heavy.

 

[Megalodon]

I agree with Steve's comments about balance. I have seen balance from both sides now that I have my first nose heavy machine in the Equinox. But a nose heavy machine is far easier to balance with a counterweight than a butt heavy machine. My ancient Garrett Master Hunter 7, for example, was nose light even with a 12" coil, due to the huge metal control box, analog display and its six 9v batteries. Perhaps its balance would be improved by additional weight at the end of the lower rod, but the entire machine already weighed a ton, so that seems impractical for a nose-light machine. A threaded end with a screw-in counterweight at the butt seems like a good fix to a nose heavy machine - but each coil may need its own counterweight (or perhaps counterweights screwed into counterweights...). When I buy a carbon-fiber rod for my Equinox, I'll also consider a 3-piece set of 3 short shafts rather than 2 long ones, for easier travel and packing. It will definitely have cam-locks like Steve's.

 

[midalake]

As a beach hunter, for me it's carbon fiber all the way. I owned some of the first carbon fiber that come out of Australia. After about 15 years of service I just passed that one on to some else, hopefully for another 15 years of service.

For me, I have a Steve's rod set-up and another in CF. I don't understand the adding weight thing? Nose heavy, so what? The last thing I want to do is add weight anywhere. Maybe it is the custom grip i use? Or the fact I glide my coil on the ground/sand.

But to the OP, YES the weight difference is noticeable!!!

 

[sphillips]

I have heard good things about Steve's after market rods. That said, adding a counter weight to the back of the machine seems like adding an anchor with chain to your car to throw out if the brakes don't stop. The machine is nose heavy.

You don't even notice the added weight, just changing the cg. Now if I attached an anchor to the ass end, well that might pose a bit of a radical cg change

 

[sphillips]

I agree with Steve's comments about balance. I have seen balance from both sides now that I have my first nose heavy machine in the Equinox. But a nose heavy machine is far easier to balance with a counterweight than a butt heavy machine. My ancient Garrett Master Hunter 7, for example, was nose light even with a 12" coil, due to the huge metal control box, analog display and its six 9v batteries. Perhaps its balance would be improved by additional weight at the end of the lower rod, but the entire machine already weighed a ton, so that seems impractical for a nose-light machine. A threaded end with a screw-in counterweight at the butt seems like a good fix to a nose heavy machine - but each coil may need its own counterweight (or perhaps counterweights screwed into counterweights...). When I buy a carbon-fiber rod for my Equinox, I'll also consider a 3-piece set of 3 short shafts rather than 2 long ones, for easier travel and packing. It will definitely have cam-locks like Steve's.

The pvc is about 8" long, put a screw about 2" from the aft end, added a couple of weights from defunct aircraft battery caps, and slipped a cap over the end

 

[smokeythecat]

Don't want to add weight to ANY machine, I want to LOSE weight. And the butt heavy machines were great - ca 1989.

 

[midalake]

Don't want to add weight to ANY machine, I want to LOSE weight. And the butt heavy machines were great - ca 1989.

Circa 1989 [when we were young]!!!!!

 

[smokeythecat]

You got that right!

 

[sphillips]

Don't want to add weight to ANY machine, I want to LOSE weight. And the butt heavy machines were great - ca 1989.

I do plan on getting a carbon shaft at some point, soon I hope, but no question my 70yr old arm can swing a lot longer with the cg shift. It is the best option until I can get a new shaft.

 

[Megalodon]

Circa 1989 [when we were young]!!!!!

Even earlier. I was thinking about 1983 when we could swing those heavy machines all day. By 1989, I had already moved to a light, balanced Tesoro golden sabre plus, my second lightweight Tesoro. The balance is more important to me than the absolute weight. I knew when I got the Nox that it was not the lightest out there or best balanced but those were not the deciding factors and can be easily fixed. Steve's website has an excellent discussion about balance and counterbalance along with testimonials. It is on my wish list.

 

[Iron Buzz]

Here's my solution.



(Seriously... I have Steve's setup with counterbalance, and I'm a fan.)

 

[Sandcrab]

I am another satisfied user of Steves carbon fiber rod with counterbalance. My 15" coil balances right at the pod. I don't even have to wrap my thumb around the pod to swing it.

 

[CPT_GhostLight]

Ditto that! Steve made me a 3-piece carbon fiber travel shaft with the counter balance so it would fit my height and swing perfectly and fits in my carry-on suitcase when broken down. He also made me two weight packets, one for the 11" and the added one to offset the 15" coil. It's some kind sciencey voodoo I tell ya, but the the added weight of the counterbalance fixed my arm fatigue problem and it doesn't feel any heavier! Before I could only swing the 11" coil an hour or two and my arm would start to ache. Now I can swing the 11" and the 15" all day with no pain and I don't even have to use the extra weight packet at all for the 15". I can also remove the counterbalance when using the 10x5" coil and that's just Nox Heaven right there!

 

[sgoss66]

I agree with Steve's comments about balance. I have seen balance from both sides now that I have my first nose heavy machine in the Equinox. But a nose heavy machine is far easier to balance with a counterweight than a butt heavy machine. My ancient Garrett Master Hunter 7, for example, was nose light even with a 12" coil, due to the huge metal control box, analog display and its six 9v batteries. Perhaps its balance would be improved by additional weight at the end of the lower rod, but the entire machine already weighed a ton, so that seems impractical for a nose-light machine. A threaded end with a screw-in counterweight at the butt seems like a good fix to a nose heavy machine - but each coil may need its own counterweight (or perhaps counterweights screwed into counterweights...). When I buy a carbon-fiber rod for my Equinox, I'll also consider a 3-piece set of 3 short shafts rather than 2 long ones, for easier travel and packing. It will definitely have cam-locks like Steve's.

Megaladon, I will gladly build you a three-piece shaft, if you prefer something that is easier to travel with; I have a number of customers (including CPT GhostLight, above) who prefer a three-piece, and I can custom-build one for you with each of the shaft sections at whatever length works best for you. And I also will note that the amount of weight inside my counterweight is adjustable; there's a screw-on cap on the end of the counterweight that allows you access to the sealed bags of lead shot inside. The reason for this is just as you said -- each coil requires a different amount of weighting, and the way I have designed them is to allow you the right amount of weight, for EACH coil, just by adding or removing a bag of shot. I explain the specifics to each customer when they purchase, it's really easy/simple. Just let me know, if at some point I can be of service.

Thanks!

Steve
Steve's Detector Rods, home of Equinox and CTX 3030 carbon-fiber shafts and rods
www.facebook.com/stevesdetectorrods