Excal batteries

[dewcon4414]

Lets talk batteries. I was hunting the other day and one of my blue batteries got low after a little over 5 hours. I did some checking and found its only a 700mah battery pack... wow. The Excal II uses a 1000 mah pack. Obviously mah is close to hours you get using one depending on age and settings.

Im aware of the packs that batteriesonly makes along with their charger which runs around $40 shipped i think. Those are 1600 mah packs and easily installed. So i was interested in getting a litho pack and contacted them..... their only reply was not possible. Which to me ment they didnt want to do. I know R&B did a litho pack for the Exp/ET and limited the charge to 12.5 dcv. Which undercharged them..... undercharging lithos increases their life. I used one of their packs and after a week of hunting the thing was still full. Big advantage for those of us who feel after a certain time you loose depth as the battery lowers. I was told by R&B they are testing a pack in Calf now.... but when it will come out if ever is the question. Some are going to say.... the 1600 mah is all you need for that good price since we recharge anyway. But there is always wear and tare taking them on and off.... like the gasket, prongs, and cable movement.

So battery gurus, this seems doable to me by using a charger that limits the charge.... anyone done it yet?

Dew

 

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[dewcon4414]

Well i had a set down with a couple of very knowledgable battery people today. What i found out is the Litho is a little more tricky. First off..... the charger since you cant open the pod.... thats defeating the purpose. Also, there is a matter of there being a connector (he called it something) that ensures all cells get charged equally as opposed to the red and black only. Not knowing the drainage doesnt help.... but another factor was price. One guy made sense when he said..... well how often do you intend on charging the battery? He recommended i upgrade the NiMH pack to one in the 2500 range or higher and stick with them. It would still work with everything i have. He went into Amp out put for the charger per 1000 mah... which of course flew over my head. Bottom line..... you have to replace the charger since they have a longer capacity and these cheap chargers just take to long. You have to consider how important you think battery life and mah is to you ... vs price to upgrade. It may cost me a little more for the up grade over the 1600 ones now available.... but not much.

Dew

 

[WaterWalker]

The problem is fitting the number of batteries into the pod. The rechargeable batteries Minelab uses are the N size and there are 10 of them in the pod. 1600Mah is about the best you can get in the N cells. The rechargable AA and N cells are designed to put out 1.2Vdc. 10 of the rechargeables will deliver 12VDC. Alkaline AA batteries are designed to put out 1.5 volts and 8 will run the Excalibur at 12Vdc (8X1.5=12) That is the reason you may only get an hour or so if you try to use rechargeable AAs in the the Alkaline pod (8X1.2=9.4Vdc). As for Lion cells is how they must be charged. You can NOT use a charger that was made for NiCad or NiMH cells also most Lion cells are designed to put out 3.7 volts. I helped in getting the $40 pack on the market. I have been using them for over 15 years and I am very happy with them, currently they have 1500Mah cells. InterState Battery can also rebuild the pack for approximately the same price. Some packs my not fit in the older pods as the taper on the inside of the pod has changed over the many years of production. And the AA 1600Mah cells are larger in diameter than the AA 700Mah cells. I have had to shave off some of the shrink wrap to get a good fit in more than one instance.

Hope this helps...my recommendation is the $40 replacement 1500Mah pack or InterState rebuild.

 

[OBN]

Dew I run the LiPo and I have to pull the battery endcap every time I charge. Sounds like a pain in the butt, but not bad at all. I get about 40 hours per charge. And the charger does all the work, balancing and checking all. What I really like is I can charge it from the car battery if the main power goes down. (And we know how hard batteries are to come by during a storm) The charge time runs about 30 minutes from 12.4 to 16.8. At 12.4 the excal will start to sing with the lipo, with the stock battery 10.7. Is there a increase of performance? Not sure but from what I can tell no....more testing is needed. Total cost is up there, 100 for the charger and 50 for the battery, is it worth it....? I would say no for the partime hunter, but for me I like the added kick.

 

[dewcon4414]

Joe.... IMO the added performance or lack there of comes when the Nimhs hit half way discharged out there. With the high speed chargers now they can be used in the car all you need is a converter and they can charge while running to the next beach. Joe... you running the 11.1 litho? I was told you can just use the black and red connectors and get the same dcv, but like you said they arent equally charged. Its like putting new batteries in with old ones. If i remember right there are 4 wires on that connector to ensure all batteries are checked and equally full.... one is a ground, making it difficult to adapt. BUT.... the Explorer batteries did it some way. Someone take there R&B exp battery apart and let us know how they got to 12.5 dcv......

Waterwalker.... we were wondering how they got the 14.2 dcv with only 8 batteries, we didnt see the other two. Someone said those 1600s were a tight fit. That certainly answers my question why they dont up them to say 2500 mah. Because they are larger in size. I saw there were 1500 and 1600 ones, i just thought it was a typo. Now.... how about 9v rechargables lol?

 

[bigscoop]

I don't know that you get anymore output with a fully charged pack VS a half-charged pack. The way it was explained to me is that the "fail tone/warning" is actually the point where the charge required is no longer sufficient. i.e., upon failure the battery is still carrying a charge, just not enough to perform as required to sustain machine performance.

 

[dewcon4414]

I agree BS..... the newer machines are supposed to maintain a certain current to the coil, but how well does it work? I can tell as the battery gets lower my depth tends to drop off. Also a NEW battery to me takes about a week to settle down.... and over charge one.... the detector goes nuts with EMI until the charge is brought down a bit.

Dew

 

[bigscoop]

Most of the outside performance differences I've noticed seem to be weather related. When it's really hot and the air is smoldering thick I can sure tell the difference in performance when using the larger coil, not near as smooth. I see similar effects over really warm sand VS cooler sand, this same thing apparent with water temps as well. Is some of this battery related? I don't think so. I just think the field is effected by all of these various ambient factors.

PS: Sent you a PM, something you should try, as you may actually have a point.

 

[WaterWalker]

Rechargeable 9Vdc batteries are usually made from 6 cells. 6X1.2=7.2Vdc. The law of physics comes to play, you can only fit so much chemical into a predefined area (this goes for all cells). One or two manufacturer are now cramming 7 cells into a 9Vdc rechargable battery which gives 8.4Vdc. This is why some devices will not operate with the 9Vdc rechargeable batteries. Why alkaline 9Vdc batteries measure 9 volts is because the alkaline cell produces 1.5Vdc and 6X1.5=9Vdc.

A battery's printed voltage is the designed potential. A rechargeable can be over charged a bit which is not good for the cell. Then there is the circuit's required voltage to operate. Some sections of a Fisher 1266 such as the audio operate at 12Vdc, the ICs need +/- 4Vdc derived from the 12Vdc battery via voltage regulators. When a charge fails to deliver the required current (voltage) to the detector's circuits they become unstable and fail to operate as designed. The main reason for decreasing battery current is that its internal resistance increased as the chemical reaction decreases.

I hope this clears up more of your questions.

PS: I used the Fisher 1266 as an example as I have a schematic of that detector. Another example is the Baracuda, and it uses +/-5Vdc in the same manner. They are both older models. Some of today's ICs use 1.35Vdc and other voltages. IC stands for integrated circuit an electronic component with many semiconductors inside a single package.

 

[Bumpstick]

I purchased a new Excal battery this season because I felt my other batteries where not performing right.
My question for the battery experts is how many hours of hunt time should you get on a fresh battery.
If I hunt for 6 hours do you recommend recharging or running the battery down. I hate it when the battery goes south and I am a half mile away from the boat and my pack. I only hit on gold with a fresh battery. when it gets weak I loose the good targets. I can dig a hundred bottle caps, swap out batteries and hit 2 rings and a cross.

 

[fsa46]

On the machines with rechargeable batteries, ( Excal and GTs) : I always top off my batteries after every hunt. With the NiMH batteries not having a memory it doesn't hurt them. I also have a light hooked up to alligator clips and draw my battery down every couple months and recharge. It isn't necessary but it just makes me feel better.

I always go out with fresh batteries.

I am a meter freak and always check my batteries before and after charging. I also check the batteries for all my machines that are not in use.

 

[dewcon4414]

Wow.... is changing batteries all i need to do to get two rings and a cross..... ill carry a couple dozen lol. The battery drain depends on your settings and what targets the detector has to respond to. Also.... like i said some of the older pods had 700 mah rechargables in them. Where the Xcal II has 1000 mah. The old ones expect them to go south in about 5 hours.... Xcal II ive hunted twice that but it could be they are newer fresher batteries.

WATERWAKER...... i noticed the 1500 maxxpack says it has a discharge rate of 30 amps.... where the 1600 is 16 amps. Explain the discharge rate to me. It appears as thou the 1600 capacity is twice as long before they start really dropping off.

 

[Vikingblood]

Can one of you excal experts tell me if I am loosing any depth just using regular double AA's.

 

[dewcon4414]

No.... in fact they really are better to use they keep their peak longer. Its the price of buying them that most of us try to avoid by using the rechargables. A rechargable drops off much faster than AA's. Take a look at your manual.... it may show a comparison. The problem with the AA's are you are putting them in a pod that ML doesnt call water proof..... thou its more about PRESSURE proof and you opening and closing the cap. Plus recharges are 1.2 dcv and the AA are 1.5 dcv.... there are 10 rechargables and only 8 AAs needed to do the same job. Also.... the chargers doesnt ensure that each rechargable is charged equally ... just that they are charged to a specific charge. Makes a big difference in battery failure.

 

[Boatlode]

Screw recharging - more trouble than its worth. I wouldn't buy any machine that had to be recharged, let alone a thousand dollar overpriced metal detector. Radio Shack sells 16 packs of AA on sale for $5.99. I stock up when they're on sale.

 

[OBN]

I noticed yesterday there is more power going to the coil when using the LiPo, I used it on the little 800 and she was falsing like crazy in the saltwater, I swapped out to the maxxbattery (ebay), fully charged 14.5 and she purrs like a kitten in the same conditions.. so from 16.8 volts to 14.5 volts something is going on, I used the LiPo today on the 1000, worked fine....smaller coil is unable to handle the higher voltage in saltwater conditions.

 

[s1u2r3f4]

I needed a new battery for the Excal and mistakenly ordered the 1500 from the ebay battery guy. When I called to change to the 1600 he said the 1500 was better. Better cells or something. But I do like the idea of charging from the car battery.

 

[dewcon4414]

Joe.... ive found NEW or over charged batteries do that on a good many machines ive owned. On the new ones after a week of charges they seem to settle down. ML says they limit the power to the coils.... so that shouldnt happen huh? I know on my Explorer it specifically said DO NOT USE LITHO because it produced more than 13 dcv and could damage the machine. Hope you know a good repairman lol.

 

[dewcon4414]

I contacted the company and asked some questions about their batteries, this is the reply i got: "the 1500's are tighter....but only with old pods that are tapered. They are high discharge rate cells and will have higher cycle life than the 1600's."

My question was which battery is largers and tight in the pod... they seem to be saying the 1500? Also i read this: The higher the discharge rate, the lower the capacity. I dont think thats the same as cycle life? That seems to mean the 1500s can be charged more times.... where the 1600 will last long out because of its larger capacity.

Dew

 

[Bumpstick]

The new Excal battery I have is the neon green one and It is performing well. Do you agree with the 2 hr. charge rate with every hour used? With the stock slow charger.

Yes I will bring my meter home from work to check my charge rate. I am on vacation right now. Can I use the fast charger on the stock battery with out damage to it?

I have the DC16V/0.7A Smart Charger Model #3P10-N1030 Powerizer charger for my Onlybatterypacks

I have several of the old blue battery pods I was going to have rebuilt. They have these sun or age cracks in the plastic. Would you rebuild or just move on?