Explorer "Noise cancel" question

[eddiebhome]

Explorer "Noise cancel" question

Just got an Explorer SE and working on the learning curve. I've read the Noise Cancel is used to choose a frequency that has the least noise/interference. This can't mean that all the other frequencies aren't used, can it? Then what is this chosen frequency used for?

More logically to my mind the Noise Cancel would be to only eliminate those frequencies that have too much interference.

What's the answer?
Thanks.

 

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[RL OH]

Re: Explorer "Noise cancel" question

Eddie, the only time I ever use noise cancel is if there is interference with the detector at the site I am hunting. It is my understanding that when you noise cancel, the software picks the best frequencies to use for the area you are hunting. If the detector is stable when I turn it on and start hunting, I will not use the noise cancel function. Does it lose depth when it is noise cancelled? I could not answer that. My advice, don't use it if you don't have to. Some Explorer users I know noise cancel every time they start hunting, but that is not my practice. R.L.

 

[eddiebhome]

Re: Explorer "Noise cancel" question

I have also read that you should noise cancel everytime you turn on the detector. The reason was that the Explorer remembers the last time you did a noise cancel and will use the same settings unless you redo it. So the noise cancellation at one site may be completely different at another, resulting in your detector ignoring frequencies where there may be no noise problem. And that frequencies where there actually is noise is not corrected for.

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Explorer "Noise cancel" question

I'm usually in a farm field and performance has always seemed the same, and when there's interference you know it. I very much doubt it's affected enough to matter if you can't tell there's a problem. People who hunt city parks might be more likely to hit it at the start of a hunt, but that really won't matter because things are always changing. Basically just push it when you need it... simple!


PS.... I actually do use it a lot because of the cross talk with my diggin bud who also uses an explorer. But if it wasn't for that it would only be power lines and the odd electric fence or radio tower.

 

[p2c]

Re: Explorer "Noise cancel" question

To answer your original question: anytime you use your explorer, it will be using 28 different frequencies. There are 11 different sets of 28 frequencies. A noise cancel chooses which of the 11 different sets receives the least interference. I will word the question differently: is there any reason not to noise cancel at the beginning of your hunt? Other than it taking 30 seconds, I think the answer is no. So, I take the 30 seconds to noise cancel. It may or may not help, but it wont hurt.

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Explorer "Noise cancel" question

To answer your original question: anytime you use your explorer, it will be using 28 different frequencies. There are 11 different sets of 28 frequencies. A noise cancel chooses which of the 11 different sets receives the least interference. I will word the question differently: is there any reason not to noise cancel at the beginning of your hunt? Other than it taking 30 seconds, I think the answer is no. So, I take the 30 seconds to noise cancel. It may or may not help, but it wont hurt.

No reason, but honestly I'd pick the extra 30 seconds if my explorer was good when I turned it on. There's always two of us so there's never a choice in the matter.

 

[Ky Ed]

Re: Explorer "Noise cancel" question

My experience with the Minelab is that if you do not noise cancel when you hit a old silver piece very deep, it can mask the silver by other interferences which may cause you to pass by a great find. These signals can be run together so badly that it is almost impossible to distinguish iron particles from weak silver signals. Now we are into iron mask so I will stay away from that in this part of my opinion. You are right in the time it takes to noise cancel. It must beep 11 times before you can start hunting. You get a lot of falsing without noise cancelling especially in trashy ares. I have not tried in open farm fields but will let you know. Eddie B.

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Explorer "Noise cancel" question

My experience with the Minelab is that if you do not noise cancel when you hit a old silver piece very deep, it can mask the silver by other interferences which may cause you to pass by a great find. These signals can be run together so badly that it is almost impossible to distinguish iron particles from weak silver signals. Now we are into iron mask so I will stay away from that in this part of my opinion. You are right in the time it takes to noise cancel. It must beep 11 times before you can start hunting. You get a lot of falsing without noise cancelling especially in trashy ares. I have not tried in open farm fields but will let you know. Eddie B.

So how did you become aware you could miss deep silver by not using the noise cancel?

 

[eddiebhome]

Re: Explorer "Noise cancel" question

To answer your original question: anytime you use your explorer, it will be using 28 different frequencies. There are 11 different sets of 28 frequencies. A noise cancel chooses which of the 11 different sets receives the least interference. I will word the question differently: is there any reason not to noise cancel at the beginning of your hunt? Other than it taking 30 seconds, I think the answer is no. So, I take the 30 seconds to noise cancel. It may or may not help, but it wont hurt.

Thanks p2c. I think that makes the most sense. Each channel is a full set of 28 frequencies. I was thinking the "channels" and the "frequencies" were the same thing.

Now I see, says the blind man!

 

[Ky Ed]

Re: Explorer "Noise cancel" question

To Mr Iron Patch. I have two friends that have Minelabs. One is the Explorer 11 and the other has the Minlelab S E We are constantly comparing deep silver to see if all can find or hear the deep silver I have located. When one of us cannot hear the target the machines are compared to settings and adjustments are made until all machines will pickup the target. This has become a regiment with my hunting partners to make sure we all have an opportunity to find those deep targets. I was taught by one of the most experienced Minelab users. Ron in California now. He taught me how to set up my machine and let me listen to targets that were silver and made sure my machine would hear them too. I normally passed up those broken sounds not understanding the value of them. Not any more. That's how I knew I was passing over those deep targets. He was so experienced he could tell me what the target was and about how deep and if it was on the edge or flat in the hole before digging. I was impressed with his patience in teaching the machine to me. Now if only I could mimic my mentor. Thanks for listening. I used silver as the example but other targets are also included. Eddie B.

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Explorer "Noise cancel" question

To Mr Iron Patch. I have two friends that have Minelabs. One is the Explorer 11 and the other has the Minlelab S E We are constantly comparing deep silver to see if all can find or hear the deep silver I have located. When one of us cannot hear the target the machines are compared to settings and adjustments are made until all machines will pickup the target. This has become a regiment with my hunting partners to make sure we all have an opportunity to find those deep targets. I was taught by one of the most experienced Minelab users. Ron in California now. He taught me how to set up my machine and let me listen to targets that were silver and made sure my machine would hear them too. I normally passed up those broken sounds not understanding the value of them. Not any more. That's how I knew I was passing over those deep targets. He was so experienced he could tell me what the target was and about how deep and if it was on the edge or flat in the hole before digging. I was impressed with his patience in teaching the machine to me. Now if only I could mimic my mentor. Thanks for listening. I used silver as the example but other targets are also included. Eddie B.

You said you make adjustments so I'm assuming noise cancel is just one of the things you try. Because you have different detectors, different settings, different levels of experience, and simply just because you are different, there is always going to be some signals that sound better to one guy than the other. If all units are operating without interference I could possibly see noise cancel making a very slight for a heavily masked small target, but a silver coin under normal conditions.... not a chance. It sounds like you don't have a whole lot of time on explorers? You're definitely doing the right thing by hunting with someone who has experience, but that only takes you so far and you will contine to learn little things for quite a long time. I thought I knew the detector well after a year or so but did I get taught a lesson on a 10 day hunt by someone who had much more experience. I'm glad it happened because that was the wake up call what i was doing could get much better... and it did.

 

[eddiebhome]

Re: Explorer "Noise cancel" question

If your "normal" situation doesn't include any electrical interference, then I also would assume that in your "normal" situation noise cancelling wouldn't make a difference. But a lot of folks do detect in areas with potential interference, where this feature could help reduce the confusion in target detection and identification. I admit to being so new to the Explorer that I may not be able to tell if the noise I'm hearing is from electrical interference or just noisy soil. So for now I just run noise cancel to make sure it's not electrical in nature.

Ky Ed, I do appreciate your response to my question. I did not get the impression that you were all that "new" to the explorer, or that that matters since you were able to help me understand this machine better. I appreciate your willingness to share your detecting time with others to help improve everyone's skill and enjoyment. Keep up the good work in supporting the hobby.

Today I was able to get out with another fairly new Explorer user and we did compare targets and machine settings, etc. I dug more trash than coins as I was trying to learn how the explorer responds to different targets. I was lucky enough to a little chirp of silver in between noisy ground and trash and retrieved my first standing liberty quarter at about 6". It's a great hobby. Let's keep it positive.

 

[p2c]

Re: Explorer "Noise cancel" question

That's a nice find there. Congrats on getting that silver signal today!
-Jon

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Explorer "Noise cancel" question

If your "normal" situation doesn't include any electrical interference, then I also would assume that in your "normal" situation noise cancelling wouldn't make a difference. But a lot of folks do detect in areas with potential interference, where this feature could help reduce the confusion in target detection and identification. I admit to being so new to the Explorer that I may not be able to tell if the noise I'm hearing is from electrical interference or just noisy soil. So for now I just run noise cancel to make sure it's not electrical in nature.

Ky Ed, I do appreciate your response to my question. I did not get the impression that you were all that "new" to the explorer, or that that matters since you were able to help me understand this machine better. I appreciate your willingness to share your detecting time with others to help improve everyone's skill and enjoyment. Keep up the good work in supporting the hobby.

Today I was able to get out with another fairly new Explorer user and we did compare targets and machine settings, etc. I dug more trash than coins as I was trying to learn how the explorer responds to different targets. I was lucky enough to a little chirp of silver in between noisy ground and trash and retrieved my first standing liberty quarter at about 6". It's a great hobby. Let's keep it positive.

You'll know interference when you get it.

There's far more things that will make you miss targets than the noise cancel, and I'm not arguing not to do it, I'm just disagreeing with a post.

 

[Ky Ed]

Re: Explorer "Noise cancel" question

My experience with detecting goes back to the late 70's. I have had several years with the Minelab Sovereign Elite, Quattro MPV, and the Explorer. Different settings were compared with many trips with a a friend with the SE and the explorer 11. I don't know everything it is for sure but do learn each time I go out. I am amazed as to the type of interferences from the security systems to electrical power transformers and large transmission lines across our nations plus airplanes and more. I notice some ground in our city goes from moderate mineralization to high. Noise cancel does more than I have a feel for. I have spent hours on the phone with the Minelab techs on the experience with the machines and also "Doc" has given a lot of insight as well. Research research research will prevail on the usage of the noise cancel. I learn from "all concerned" in the minelab detector all of the time. Sharing this post will teach me from your field experience also. This is an awesome machine with tricks to learn for year to come. Even Minelab has admitted they find things it will do that is not included in the book. So have I. I promise if you use your noise cancel more you will find more deep targets than ever before. If you like, email me and I will give you some tips that were taught me from the best hunters around. Ron from Ca. is on the Treasure Depot forum and is one of the best I have ever seen and I seem to be a novice when hunting with him. His silver count is over a hundred pieces a hunting year. He doesn't get to hunt much because he travels so much . Now that you have been patient with my post; use your machine as you are comfortable. I just wanted you to get top performance and not let it become a closet machine. Enjoy this great hobby. Eddie B.

 

[iron_foot]

Re: Explorer "Noise cancel" question

this answer to noise cancel came from minelab them self.

NOISE CANCEL

Just what is going on when we press NOISE CANCEL and what is it doing?
The BBS/FBS detectors transmit and receive a wider range of frequencies than single/dual frequency detectors. Consequently, a wider range of atmospheric electrical noise can interfere with the internal processing circuits, resulting in an oscillating ( warbling chirping) threshold and resultant loss of sensitivity. The received "electrical noise", referred to consists of electrical noise radiated by power lines, computers and some weather conditions. All electrical appliances radiate some electrical noise! Under these conditions the microprocessor is not only trying to differentiate between ground noises and target returns, it is also trying to process this 'interference', so some target and ground information is not correctly processed, hence the loss of sensitivity. (Turn one of these detectors on whilst inside a house, turn the sensitivity up and you will see what I mean)
Due to the larger spectrum used by the Explorer, at higher sensitivity settings, this may be more noticeable. The internal Noise Cancel feature overcomes this problem. This feature also allows a number of detectors to be used in close proximity.
The following Noise Cancel explanation may help in understanding this feature. The 28 frequencies transmitted by the Explorer are all produced from one variable oscillator, and all 28 are multiples or sub multiples of this oscillator frequency. When Noise Cancel is initiated, it steps the variable frequency oscillator through its range of 11 frequency steps (thus slightly changing all 28 frequencies by the same ratio). It records the received electrical noise at each step. At the end of this procedure, it selects the quietest frequency (i.e. the one that received the least noise). It also remembers this frequency when you switch the detector off and sets it to that particular frequency when you turn it back on again. This would possibly explain why some Explorer users experience initial instability especially if, the detector is switched on at a different site on a different day? You really should do a Noise Cancel before each search. The receiver is designed to properly receive the whole range of possible transmitted frequencies, so


neither depth, nor discrimination will be affected by whatever frequency the Noise Cancel circuit finally selects.
Why is it important to hold the coil very still during the Noise Cancel procedure? If the coil is moved during this procedure, the noise being picked up in that instant may change because the coil has moved. Therefore whatever frequency was being sampled at that instant will have "noise" recorded against it, and it means that it won't use that particular frequency (even though that frequency may have been the quietest).

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Explorer "Noise cancel" question

this answer to noise cancel came from minelab them self.

NOISE CANCEL

Just what is going on when we press NOISE CANCEL and what is it doing?
The BBS/FBS detectors transmit and receive a wider range of frequencies than single/dual frequency detectors. Consequently, a wider range of atmospheric electrical noise can interfere with the internal processing circuits, resulting in an oscillating ( warbling chirping) threshold and resultant loss of sensitivity. The received "electrical noise", referred to consists of electrical noise radiated by power lines, computers and some weather conditions. All electrical appliances radiate some electrical noise! Under these conditions the microprocessor is not only trying to differentiate between ground noises and target returns, it is also trying to process this 'interference', so some target and ground information is not correctly processed, hence the loss of sensitivity. (Turn one of these detectors on whilst inside a house, turn the sensitivity up and you will see what I mean)
Due to the larger spectrum used by the Explorer, at higher sensitivity settings, this may be more noticeable. The internal Noise Cancel feature overcomes this problem. This feature also allows a number of detectors to be used in close proximity.
The following Noise Cancel explanation may help in understanding this feature. The 28 frequencies transmitted by the Explorer are all produced from one variable oscillator, and all 28 are multiples or sub multiples of this oscillator frequency. When Noise Cancel is initiated, it steps the variable frequency oscillator through its range of 11 frequency steps (thus slightly changing all 28 frequencies by the same ratio). It records the received electrical noise at each step. At the end of this procedure, it selects the quietest frequency (i.e. the one that received the least noise). It also remembers this frequency when you switch the detector off and sets it to that particular frequency when you turn it back on again. This would possibly explain why some Explorer users experience initial instability especially if, the detector is switched on at a different site on a different day? You really should do a Noise Cancel before each search. The receiver is designed to properly receive the whole range of possible transmitted frequencies, so


neither depth, nor discrimination will be affected by whatever frequency the Noise Cancel circuit finally selects.
Why is it important to hold the coil very still during the Noise Cancel procedure? If the coil is moved during this procedure, the noise being picked up in that instant may change because the coil has moved. Therefore whatever frequency was being sampled at that instant will have "noise" recorded against it, and it means that it won't use that particular frequency (even though that frequency may have been the quietest).

This I find very hard to believe....

"It also remembers this frequency when you switch the detector off and sets it to that particular frequency when you turn it back on again."

.....Because my friend's explorer cross talks like crazy with mine, and we have to noise cancel every time someone turns off a detector. If the above statement was true we'd only have to do it once, and never again.

 

[relic lover]

Re: Explorer "Noise cancel" question

I am new to Minelab I just got a used XS off ebay. Mt true motivation for the switch was no one makes a small DD for the ace 250 and I got the idea in my head that only a 5" DD could cut through the trash right around my hunted out cellar holes. so with XS and 5' DD coil I went out to my most nail infested cellar hole to try it out. Powered up and hit noise cancel and switched to ferrous sounds. In 5 minutes I came up with this 1/2 real from a spot I hunted over 10 times before with the ace and XS with the stock coil. Did noise cancel contribute? Who knows but you can bet it will be a part of my routine from now on!

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Explorer "Noise cancel" question

I am new to Minelab I just got a used XS off ebay. Mt true motivation for the switch was no one makes a small DD for the ace 250 and I got the idea in my head that only a 5" DD could cut through the trash right around my hunted out cellar holes. so with XS and 5' DD coil I went out to my most nail infested cellar hole to try it out. Powered up and hit noise cancel and switched to ferrous sounds. In 5 minutes I came up with this 1/2 real from a spot I hunted over 10 times before with the ace and XS with the stock coil. Did noise cancel contribute? Who knows but you can bet it will be a part of my routine from now on!

You'll be surprised how well the stock coil will see through junk too, once you have some experience with the detector. I've tried smaller coils several times and they didn't seem to do much better. I'd probably find less because of the loss of coverage and depth.

Spanish silver is a good day!

 

[relic lover]

Re: Explorer "Noise cancel" question

I am new to Minelab I just got a used XS off ebay. Mt true motivation for the switch was no one makes a small DD for the ace 250 and I got the idea in my head that only a 5" DD could cut through the trash right around my hunted out cellar holes. so with XS and 5' DD coil I went out to my most nail infested cellar hole to try it out. Powered up and hit noise cancel and switched to ferrous sounds. In 5 minutes I came up with this 1/2 real from a spot I hunted over 10 times before with the ace and XS with the stock coil. Did noise cancel contribute? Who knows but you can bet it will be a part of my routine from now on!

You'll be surprised how well the stock coil will see through junk too, once you have some experience with the detector. I've tried smaller coils several times and they didn't seem to do much better. I'd probably find less because of the loss of coverage and depth.

Spanish silver is a good day!

Thanks, I did make some great finds with the stock coil in heavy trash like these old buttons that my ace missed even with the 4' coil. I was going to buy a new SE Pro or an Etrac till I read your posts about your exp. II being just as good. The part that hit home is when you pointed out that they all use the same coils how different could they be? Maybe they recover faster but I like to hunt slow and methodically anyway. If i get the urge to swing fast I still have my ace I use to scout for iron patches.