Face Cut Into Mountain in SoCal

[gollum]

I posted these two pics in another section, but this mountain near Borrego Springs, Ca. is called Indian Head Peak. Nobody local knows anything about its' origins. The Park Rangers (Anza-Borrego Desert State Park) think it's natural. Local Indians don't know anything about it, and The Yaqui Tribe that used to live here haven't been able to find anything so far in their tribal legends to account for it.

I've seen a few Spanish carved mountain tops that were less obviously man made than this.

Has anyone ever heard anything about this. It's located at the Eastern edge of the Anza-Borrego Desert State Park near the Western side of the town of Borrego Springs, Ca. Just West of the Salton Sea.

If Spanish, like I believe it is, it would have been cut between 1575 and about 1700.

If this can be figured out, I believe it could give the Yaqui Indians back a piece of their history that has been lost to time.

The first pic is what a wandering Spaniard would have seen heading West towards the ocean.

Thanks-Mike

 

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[dralston]

The question is if it is altered by man...why? It would be an enormous amount of work getting people up there and supplied. Even slave labor would need some food and water to work up there, even just to get there, without dying on the way. A thousand little monuments and cairns could be put on the valley bottom more easily.

If it is altered by man, I would think it would mark something very significant to be worth all the effort.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

The Yaqui Tribe that used to live here haven't been able to find anything so far in their tribal legends to account for it.


If this can be figured out, I believe it could give the Yaqui Indians back a piece of their history that has been lost to time..

Thanks-Mike
[/quote]

Q) Hola Mike, are you sure that the tribe were Yaquis? I have spent a few years living with them learning their language and legends, and have never heard of any living in the Calif area in the Spanish period. Today they have large colonies in Az etc.

They originally were established in central Present Sonora, radiating out from the Yaqui river but hemmed in by other tribes, Mayos, Pimas, Seris, etc., etc. These tribes were very belligerent to any trespassers upon their claimed lands and at a constant sate of semi-warfare with each other.

Existence in those times was not a bed of Roses as many would like to believe, but a constant balance between starvation, disease and being killed by your neighbor. It is hard to see how a part of the central tribe could have broken off and migrated to Calif. and survived.

As for the head, I will not comment, other than what would warrant such a project even IF they had the materiel and manpower to accomplish it.

Till Eulenspeigle ~ Jose de La Manchas

 

[Monty]

Sometimes I think watching for those "signs" are like looking at clouds, you can see anything if you look long enough. I would doubt that anything that big would be other than natural. Just my opinion and you know what opinions are like. Monty.

 

[gollum]

Come on now! Before we poopoo anything, let's do a little research. It's a fact that the Spanish used Indian Slave labor to do this very thing! King after King made it abundantly clear that they wanted their royal fifth, and all trail markings should be standardized. That's why the Kings would send along a Royal Cartographer with every expedition they funded so all trail markers could be read by successive expeditions. Especially if something bad happened to the previous one. They would oversee the all the marker making and keep track of them by making maps which were owned by the King not the explorers.

It's not a question of whether or not this is man made. It's just that some things are lost to history due to wars, migration, modernization, etc. I'm just trying to find some specifics.

Like I said in the original post. I have seen a few mountains shaped into faces that were KNOWN to be man made that were less obvious than this. The Spanish would put a couple of hundred Indian Slaves to work using hand tools. These mountain carvings were made by the Spanish for two reasons: 1. To identify the area as home to dangerous Indians and that other travellers should avoid it by going in the direction the face is looking (This face happens to be looking in the direction of San Felipe Creek. 300 years ago, this would have been the only easy to traverse path through the mountains). 2. The Spanish would make these mountains as an aid to travellers to help mark King's Trails. These were trails and paths that were only to be used by people on Kings' Business (Royal Messengers, Treasure Caravans, etc.). Do a little research, and you will find the Spanish were relentless and had a never ending supply of slave labor. All they needed was a mountain or ridge facing the proper direction, and roughly the correct shape. You put 200 slaves to work on it for a couple of months, they could have cut it to look like Mickey Mouse!

While no Yaqui live in the area now, go to maps.google.com and type in Borrego Springs, Ca and you will see names of places like Yaqui Wells, Yaqui Meadows, Yaqui Flats, Yaqui Pass Road, etc. They lived in the area for a long time before the whites and Spanish got here.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Come on now! Before we poopoo anything, let's do a little research. It's a fact that the Spanish used Indian Slave labor to do this very thing! King after King made it abundantly clear that they wanted their royal fifth, and all trail markings should be standardized. That's why the Kings would send along a Royal Cartographer with every expedition they funded so all trail markers could be read by successive expeditions. Especially if something bad happened to the previous one. They would oversee the all the marker making and keep track of them by making maps which were owned by the King not the explorers.
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A)No argument essentially.
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It's not a question of whether or not this is man made. It's just that some things are lost to history due to wars, migration, modernization, etc. I'm just trying to find some specifics.
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Q)? Isn't it? However I am in complete agreement on the second part.
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Like I said in the original post. I have seen a few mountains shaped into faces that were KNOWN to be man made that were less obvious than this. The Spanish would put a couple of hundred Indian Slaves to work using hand tools. These mountain carvings were made by the Spanish for two reasons: 1. To identify the area as home to dangerous Indians and that other travellers should avoid it by going in the direction the face is looking (This face happens to be looking in the direction of San Felipe Creek. 300 years ago, this would have been the only easy to traverse path through the mountains). 2. The Spanish would make these mountains as an aid to travellers to help mark King's Trails. These were trails and paths that were only to be used by people on Kings' Business (Royal Messengers, Treasure Caravans, etc.). Do a little research, and you will find the Spanish were relentless and had a never ending supply of slave labor. All they needed was a mountain or ridge facing the proper direction, and roughly the correct shape. You put 200 slaves to work on it for a couple of months, they could have cut it to look like Mickey Mouse!
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Q)? The early Spanish did not have any powder to spare for things like this or even mining.? Since iron and steel were also extremely scarce, all work would have been done with hard rock tools and fire to fracture the? rock. many many? months? would have been? involved.

Have you identified any rock at the base that showed man had fractured it?? Any evidence of fire ?
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While no Yaqui live in the area now, go to maps.google.com and type in Borrego Springs, Ca and you will see names of places like Yaqui Wells, Yaqui Meadows, Yaqui Flats, Yaqui Pass Road, etc. They lived in the area for a long time before the whites and Spanish got here.
[/quote]
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A) Will do, but past research shows no tribe there.? Perhaps an individual or so had lived there, but many times any Indian? living in an area would be incorrectly called this or that.? Who knows?

The original Yaqui were a Small people,? perhaps 3 ft tall.? Through interbreeding they reached their? present size.? In those days anyone was welcomed into the tribe since any male was considered another fighter to protect the tribal grounds and women. There are no fixed characteristic to a Yaqui today
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As far as Indian heads and figures go, I personally know of 4.? A very prominent one is mt Tamalpais, the sleeping Indian maid, in Marin county, just across from San Francisco. We have another here in Alamos, Sonora, and another near? Chinapas, Chihuahua, and on.

What I am suggesting is to find proof that man had worked this spot by looking for unnaturally fragmented rock or evidence of smoke from fires used to fragment the rock.? Do this before? expending any money on the project.

Till Eulenspeigle? ? ~? ?Jose de La mancha

 

[gollum]

Hola Realde! If you have Google Earth (It's free), Let me know, and I'll send you the exact lat and long of Indian Head Peak. the part of the mountain that forms the face is worked extensively. The entire top of this place is raw cut rock, while all the surrounding mountaintops and ridges have mostly smoothed rock with brush and grass overgrown. Believe me, I have taken thousands of pics of all kinds of unnatural looking objects from all over the world. 99.9% of them I believe to be of natural origin. When I get something that really stands out, I take multiple shots from different angles at different times of day and of the year. Only after I can't write it off as natural or something recent, do I talk about it to anyone (and even then not if there may be something valuable involved).

I have been working with members of the Pascua Yaqui Tribe on this. They have told me that there were Yaqui in this area at the time, but no more. Cuirrently, the majority of Indians in this area belong to the Mission Tribes.

Too bad you aren't in this area. If you took a close look at this mountaintop from standing on top of it, you would see that it resembles no other peak in the area, even though it's made of the same rock.

Thanks-Mike

 

[gollum]

I've seen Mt. Tamalpais. I've seen one a couple of hundred miles West of Laredo, Tx. in Mexico. Northwest of Saltillo, near the Coahuila de Zaragoza. It's a solitary peak in the middle of a dry lake bed flat. I don't remember the exact location, because it was in the early eighties while on a Drug Interdiction Mission in the military. The Mexican Government was actually assisting us, not fighting us at the time! The Federale Narco Troops we were working with showed it to me after they found out that kind of thing interested me. The other one I have seen was in Southern Utah. From what I gathered, it was fairly well known. That was the only time I have been to Utah.

Oh yeah! I almost forgot to mention. I don't spend any money on this stuff except for Metal Detectors and hand excavating equipment which I use at other places as well. See my Post in Treasure Legends> Old Shaft Unearthed In Anza-Borrego Desert!!! Lots of pics. Can't really use any electronic TH'ing equipment because this peak lies sqaure in a state park. No digging and no MD'ing. Sucks huh? When I was talking to a Park Ranger, I asked how serious they were about metal detecting in the park, he said they would rather leave gold buried in the ground than have ONE HOLE dug in the state park! I know if you are caught metal detecting in a state park, they will not only confiscate your metal detector, they will get a search warrant for your home and cars thinking you are stealing Indian Artifacts and/or national treasures. They will take your computer and any written research materials you may have.

No fun at all! Not worth the risk!

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[Hola Realde! If you have Google Earth (It's free), Let me know, and I'll send you the exact lat and long of Indian Head Peak.
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A)RealdeTayopa@hotmail.com or jcurry@prodjgy.net.mx I have Google pro.
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I have been working with members of the Pascua Yaqui Tribe on this. They have told me that there were Yaqui in this area at the time, but no more. Cuirrently, the majority of Indians in this area belong to the Mission Tribes.
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Q) Pascua Yaquis basically live in Tucson no? Ask them about the legend of Yo-obwa

Till Eulenspeigle - Jose de La Mancha
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Thanks-Mike

thank YOU Mike for shareing.

 

[Hazy_Desert]

There’s a mountain right across Indian Head that looks just like a face I’m sure you’ve seen it. That one really looks like it had to be man made or something. It has eyes and nose ! Even a mouth..... my question is why did they make Indian Head face the stars ����

 

[Johnnybravo300]

We have alot of those around colorado too. All natural.
Native americans never had the time or resources to do this type of thing and never had the tools. They were too busy trying to survive.
Maybe the spaniards but why would they. It would be a complete waste of time to take on a project that extensive.

 

[Back-of-the-boat]

Naturally formed. The Kumeyaay were the local tribe never the Yaqui, you do have to remember white men named these places called Yaqui flats, wells etc. it doesn't mean there were ever Yaqui Indians there, it was a tribe that whoever named the place was familiar with is all that means. Now Apache wells makes sense or Apache flats since the Kumeyaay and the Yuman tribes are tribes that have branched off of the Apaches, this I know as I am Kumeyaay and I grew up in Julian just above the area in question.

 

[Quinoa]

I didn't really specifically see the ridgeline image in Gollums pictures, but the "sleeping indian" or rather just "sleeping head " he was trying to refer to just means tombs or crypts amidst. In 10 or 20 years this will come out. They are not spanish but much much older. Sorry for lack of available knowledge. But nobody really deserves anything. You get what you get and find it out for yourself I suppose.

 

[Quinoa]

Btw there are WAY better examples out there. That ones almost a joke.

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

I didn't really specifically see the ridgeline image in Gollums pictures, but the "sleeping indian" or rather just "sleeping head " he was trying to refer to just means tombs or crypts amidst. In 10 or 20 years this will come out. They are not spanish but much much older. Sorry for lack of available knowledge. But nobody really deserves anything. You get what you get and find it out for yourself I suppose.

Yea, for me its better to go to a site without clouded thoughts. Let the site speak to you. They will tell you where to look and whats going on there. I think a lot of people have been corrupted with bad info. Let the people that hid it tell you. It can go so Deep with the info., keep it simple with the x spot stuff in the field. You can always dig deeper at home with all the other meanings at the sites.

 

[Toecutter]

Wow way to keep a 14 year old post going guys...