flea market point

[jerseyben]

Picked up this beautiful point at the flea market today.

Is it an arrowhead or spear point?

Possible area of origin?

 

[kuger]

post your examples and let us see them too.

..,

 

[monsterrack]

They do some nice work in India. Good looking point

You have to watch out for the straight edges that makes the flaking almost straight down and not across the point and the small notching . The pressure flaking on the edge is what gives it away and yes there are some real nice notching done on the west cost, but it is not that small from start to finish, antler is small on the tip but gets larger on up the tine , you have to have room to get your tool inside the notch to work. Just saying from my opinion . Another thing there are some real thin skin people on the net. Don't sweat others opinion it's like a nose everyone has one.

 

[kuger]

here are couple "notches",I have sitting handy.....

 

[kuger]

how bout these?Fake?I asked a simple question.....

 

[kuger]

.I assure you I have never and would ner buy or trade a point,or artifact

 

[unclemac]

those are nice, and actually look very Columbia River to me, I wouldn't have questioned them from the photo you post...however, they do not resemble the one in this post, at least to me they don't.

 

[kuger]

those are nice, and actually look very Columbia River to me, I wouldn't have questioned them from the photo you post...however, they do not resemble the one in this post, at least to me they don't.

.....thanks...just a couple I have handy(I am not too into posting pics )what jumps out at you "Fake",from the one in question.....

 

[kuger]

You have to watch out for the straight edges that makes the flaking almost straight down and not across the point and the small notching . The pressure flaking on the edge is what gives it away and yes there are some real nice notching done on the west cost, but it is not that small from start to finish, antler is small on the tip but gets larger on up the tine , you have to have room to get your tool inside the notch to work. Just saying from my opinion . Another thing there are some real thin skin people on the net. Don't sweat others opinion it's like a nose everyone has one.

....I see what your saying,about the flakes going vertical,they dont grind a good foundation for the chip to go latterally across the face....

 

[unclemac]

.....thanks...just a couple I have handy(I am not too into posting pics )what jumps out at you "Fake",from the one in question.....

the shape, size and straightness of the triangle shape. to me it screams fake...add to that the "flea market" story...

 

[kuger]

the shape, size and straightness of the triangle shape. to me it screams fake...add to that the "flea market" story...

...Fair enough

 

[gilmerman]

Dead giveaway is in the sharpness in the flaking; 2 or 3 years old not thousands. There are good finds in flea markets but if the seller looks like a sharpie you can bet your going to be cut. You must be educated in what an authentic artifact looks like. You can still be fooled but by and large always be careful. Don't let this stop you just be really careful.

 

[kuger]

Dead giveaway is in the sharpness in the flaking; 2 or 3 years old not thousands. There are good finds in flea markets but if the seller looks like a sharpie you can bet your going to be cut. You must be educated in what an authentic artifact looks like. You can still be fooled but by and large always be careful. Don't let this stop you just be really careful.

..........I have points thousands of years old that are as sharp as the the day they were made............??

 

[Jon Stewart]

I am with kuger on this one. I am also a flint knapper and have looked at lots of India points and they seemed to be done nicer and have more uniform flake scars. IMHO I would have professional look at it just in case it is real. Save it for an artifact show and take it with you for evaluation. If it is real it will certainly be worth it. Sometimes its just too hard to evaluate a point by a photo.

One other thought is I have never seen an India point with that patina. All I have seen have been made of a grainy type jasper material.


Take everyones thoughts and run with it but I would have that point checked out.

 

[jerseyben]

I am with kuger on this one. I am also a flint knapper and have looked at lots of India points and they seemed to be done nicer and have more uniform flake scars. IMHO I would have professional look at it just in case it is real. Save it for an artifact show and take it with you for evaluation. If it is real it will certainly be worth it. Sometimes its just too hard to evaluate a point by a photo.

One other thought is I have never seen an India point with that patina. All I have seen have been made of a grainy type jasper material.


Take everyones thoughts and run with it but I would have that point checked out.

Did you see my better pics in post #12? The original pics were taken at night an the poor lighting created a darkened effect on the point.

 

[jerseyben]

Based on the evidence presented by many knowledgable folks, I agree that it is a modern point. I do believe it to be of high quality. I would have bought it even if I knew it was modern, because of the quality and the low price I paid for it.

Thank you all for your help on this one.

 

[Jon Stewart]

Save it and have it checked anyway. Overstreet is full of deep notched points, example: Lost Lake points.


BUT, we have a Wednesday flee market and a guy was selling India points. I stopped and asked him a few questions and he proclaimed that he made the points himself. I asked him how ne notched the points with such a thick base and he told me he use water. The guy stood there and lied to me.

 

[hbrown22]

I too, would be interested in what makes this modern. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, I just want to learn what to look for. For me, I would NOT have bought it because:

1. It looks to "new" and clean for me. I don't see a weathering patina. I clean mine with a soft brush and water. Even when I get all the dirt off, there is still a haze on most of it due to sitting out in the elements for thousands of years. There is also little cracks and crevices I can't get to.

2. I rarely trust a word people say when they're trying to make a buck. Unless I pull it from the ground or someone I trust gives it to me, I'm not gonna trust the source (especially if it's shiny & new looking).

What else can I look for, style & flaking pattern for that time period? A year ago I may have bought it, now that I've found my own stuff and been to shows, I'm suspicious.

 

[yakker]

I know I'm in the minority, but I'm still on the fence on this one. Granted, the piece is very symmetrical, fine notching, and clean. But I gotta say, depending on the surrounding material, points can pop out clean- it's not unheard of. And I have points w/ weird knapping. The points I've seen (on line only- which may be a problem for me) from India have a different texture/grain. They don't seem to be the waxy-looking jasper I'm used to from PA (and I find a fair amount of it). The one and only thing that gets me is that it is so very clean- even in the raw edges. Like HBrown said, I brush mine clean w/ toothbrush and water- sometimes a little dish soap, but I can never get all the crevasses clean, and that's a fact. I guess, if it were me, I'd bring it to a show and see what the consensus is. Anyway- great post and thread- and all good food for thought- and an education. Thanks guys. and HH! Yak

 

[kuger]

why in tarnation are yall cleaning your points?!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[kansa54]

Don't be fooled by whether a pt. is clean or not. Most of the time, if someone is trying to pass off a modern pt. as ancient, they will try to put a false patina on it. On the other hand, I have found ancient pts. that look freshly knapped.
That being said, the point in question looks modern to me but remember we are looking at a photo.
Hope it turns out to be an ancient point though.