For mixed gas or long term divers out there.

xaos · Jan 24, 2019

I am not a doctor. I am not endorsing the following, it is COMPLETELY up to the individual to do as they will with the following information!

I have been diving for over 20 years, from SCUBA, TRIMIX, and Heliox mixes. Lungs take a beating, especially with the mixed gas.

I found the following information useful.

The Treatment of Pulmonary Diseases and Respiratory-Related Conditions with Inhaled (Nebulized or Aerosolized) Glutathione

Boatlode · Jan 26, 2019

xaos said:
I have been diving for over 20 years, from SCUBA, TRIMIX, and Heliox mixes. Lungs take a beating, especially with the mixed gas.

Please elaborate. I never heard of any long term lung issues with any of these.

divermark · Jan 27, 2019

This is incorrect

Adding helium to a gas mix actually benefits the lungs by reducing stress on the lung

Obviously the mixes have to be accurate

Heliox is actually used in aiding pulmonary disease/damage repair

xaos · Jan 27, 2019

ahhh, a Google search! The medical mix that is used for asthma and COPD is different, and is augmented with additives such as albuterol. It relaxes the lungs by increasing capacity, which is important with COPD and Asthma. Have you considered what it does when you do not have your lungs being restricted by these ailments?

It does not appear that you have ever used Heliox? I know exactly what it felt like after a dive.

There are alerts on DAN and other sites...

Boatlode · Jan 27, 2019

xaos said:
ahhh, a Google search! The medical mix that is used for asthma and COPD is different, and is augmented with additives such as albuterol. It relaxes the lungs by increasing capacity, which is important with COPD and Asthma. Have you considered what it does when you do not have your lungs being restricted by these ailments?

It does not appear that you have ever used Heliox? I know exactly what it felt like after a dive.

There are alerts on DAN and other sites...

So how did it feel? Not trying to start a fight, but can you provide any medical data other than your own experience?

lukdiver · Jan 27, 2019

Mixed gas/deep air divers.

Boatlode said:
So how did it feel? Not trying to start a fight, but can you provide any medical data other than your own experience?

Not trying to side-track this discussion but just offering my experience on deep air diving. My twin brother and I dove deep air in the past (now shallow wrecks) on deep wrecks off California and Alaska. I backed off after CNS hit (many thanks to diving Dr. Tommy Love at Travis AFB chamber for his treatment) after diving a wreck in Alaska. Twin brother continued with further expeditions and has had both shoulders (total) replaced and never had a hit (other than likely silent hits). He's still in total denial on the deep air being the cause. Funny as after his second operation he had a call with Bart Malone (passed away last year) and he was driving down to Newport News Maritime Museum and Bart asked the guys in the van (6-8 guys?) and half had their shoulders replaced. Strange that early commercial HeOx divers (before they refined tables) had hips replaced and sport divers took shoulder hits. His shoulder Balls were 'knarly' from the dead bone marrow in that bone being deposited in ball and wiping out the cartilage. Just saying...… Really miss the charge we got from the narced wreck dives but the shallow wrecks are better for au.

agflit · Jan 27, 2019

Dysbaric osteonecrosis...

Long term deep air divers seem to be afflicted by it...interesting article that DAN did about it awhile back...good reading.

Alert Diver | Dysbaric Osteonecrosis in Recreational Diving

From DIVER magazine...

https://divermag.com/dysbaric-osteonecrosis/

Quite a few reference articles under "Aseptic Bone necrosis" if ya want to do a search...

ag

Boatlode · Jan 28, 2019

agflit said:
Dysbaric osteonecrosis...

Long term deep air divers seem to be afflicted by it...interesting article that DAN did about it awhile back...good reading.

Alert Diver | Dysbaric Osteonecrosis in Recreational Diving

From DIVER magazine...

https://divermag.com/dysbaric-osteonecrosis/

Quite a few reference articles under "Aseptic Bone necrosis" if ya want to do a search...

ag

So from what I just read, you need to suffer from DCS over a long period of time for this to happen.

xaos · Jan 28, 2019

Those who dive with Heliox, especially deeper dives, know exactly what it is like. Coughing foam for a few hours to a few days.

Get a sore throat from Trimix? What do you think it does to your lungs?

There is a reason there really arent any definitive studies, the base study group is too small. Try looking at Heliox divers and North Sea.

Not here to debate dive experience or anything.

The medical treatment information is to use at your will.

agflit · Jan 28, 2019

Boatlode said:
So from what I just read, you need to suffer from DCS over a long period of time for this to happen.

I'm not sure about that Boats....I suspect that the DON is more indictative of perfusion issues than DCS...remember, bone is one of the least perfused masses in the body... I'd love to see a more in-depth study in regards to DON and how it pertains to what I suspect may well be, micro bubbling in perfusion challenged tissue dense areas...

I could definitely see where microbubbles in solution could, while not creating a DCS issue, be indictative of long term destruction on perfusion limited body mass areas.

I'm certainly no doctor...but imo, there may well be a corrolation between microbubbling and bone damage.

ag

Boatlode · Jan 28, 2019

xaos said:
Those who dive with Heliox, especially deeper dives, know exactly what it is like. Coughing foam for a few hours to a few days.

Get a sore throat from Trimix? What do you think it does to your lungs?

There is a reason there really arent any definitive studies, the base study group is too small. Try looking at Heliox divers and North Sea.

Not here to debate dive experience or anything.

The medical treatment information is to use at your will.

I cough from multiple air dives. That is dry throat. So what you are talking about is throat irritation, not long term lung damage. If not, then please show me the medical data.

Again, not trying to start a fight. You made a statement that concerns me as a diver for 40+ years, which at 57 is most of my life.

Salvor6 · Jan 28, 2019

Boatlode I have studied hyperbaric medicine and let me assure you there is no mixed gas that will damage your lungs. Even the article said there is no problem for recreational divers. One of the doctors stated there is "no significant risk to recreational divers." I have been diving mixed gas since 1996 with no ill effects. Lile Lukdiver says DON effects your bones, joints, not your lungs.

xaos · Jan 28, 2019

I cough from multiple air dives. That is dry throat. So what you are talking about is throat irritation, not long term lung damage. If not, then please show me the medical data.

Again, not trying to start a fight. You made a statement that concerns me as a diver for 40+ years, which at 57 is most of my life.

I am not providing anything but a possible relief (if you need one). Just as with the myriad of experience, everyone is different.

Thoughts: As you note, you cough from "dry throat" but what really is that? Your throat is far larger than your lung passages.... Just as I observed, divers on Heliox , including myself, coughing foam.

Degradation of your bones, but lungs are not affected?

I have been diving mixed gas since 1996 with no ill effects.

oh really! 8-)

I saw you at the BBQ... damn dude. That cant be natural, so what did happen?

Edit: instead of searching for the cause, search for the potential cures of an issue.....