Found my oldest coin ever ! 1832 silver !

[pl8man]

Just found my 2nd 1800's coin in the past week ! That's great for me due to hunting mainly schools and parks that are maybe 60 years old . This coin was not really a surprise find in this location . About 5 years ago I found a 1972 Seated half at 8 inches at this same location . Also found a 1892 Barber dime at this location around 3 years ago .
This coin was a good 7 - 8 inches deep and it gave off a high tone of +81 - +83 . When I first saw the coin I knew I had silver ! At first I had no idea what it was till I just lightly wiped away some dirt and then I saw 1832 ! It turned out to be my oldest coin ever !

It's a 1 Franc with King Louis Philippe I on it . Very cool looking coin . Could this have been used here in California before it was a state ? Any info would be great !
HH
Glen

 

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[gimper]

I fully agree with Timbuktu all very true I have found a few of these French franc coins here In Illinois from our early settlement era also spanish bits, back then any coinage was better than none.American coins were fairly scarce on the frontier. Unless you wanted to barter with scalps.LOL Also a lot of people arrived on sailing ships after going around the horn from many different nations to get to the gold rush, hell California could have anything from anywhere waiting to be found, it was a worldwide event.But if you find a viking coin well..............................

 

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[park pirate]

Nice...

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

A French Franc dating from the 1830's is a very nice find, and certainly not out of the relm of possibilities by any means in California.

Foreign currency was legal tender in the United States up to 1857, and widely accepted during daily commerce. The French 5 Franc was equal to the Spanish 8 Reales, as well as equal to our US Dollar (The US Dollar also being based on the current world currency at the founding of our country, the Spanish milled dollar or 8 Reales).

In research, I have personally read accounts where French 1 Franc coins were imported into California by ship, literally by barrels full, during the 1850's. Considering the two principal forms of silver coinage circulating there in California were the silver US quarter dollar ($0.25), and Latin American (Spanish Colonial and independent states/countries) silver 2 Reales (1/4 of an 8 Reales in value), the French 1 Franc was found to circulate at equal rate being near the same size and shape. However, those enterprising individuals taking advantage in importing these French 1 Franc pieces gained an instant 25% profit at the first exchange in California markets, as there were five coins of silver 1 Francs needed to equal a US Dollar! With the Act of Congress in 1857 abolishing acceptance of foreign silver as legal tender, the French Francs and other foreign coins soon disappeared from circulation. For an interim period, the United States mints in 1857 offered to accept all foreign coinage, even worn and devalued, at full value, in exchange for US coinage. The majority of this was paid for though, using the newly minted Flying Eagle cents, which for the first time in our history carried a metal value well below face value (the earlier Large Cents and Half Cents were originally intended to circulate carrying a metal weight almost up to 100th of a dollar, and 200th of a dollar respectively). Of course the government made a hefty profit on this exchange (even when allowing "full" value for worn-down foreign silver coinage such as Francs & Reales! The silver Francs, Reales, and other foreign coins were soon melted at the mints of San Francisco, New Orleans, and Philadelphia, and reborn as Seated Liberty coinage, as well as the new silver $0.03 pieces.

A French Franc such as we see here, would have been a common sight in daily commerce of California, for nearly a decade up to 1857. After that date, the probability of circulaltion is rare indeed. So, rather than some lone trapper, early explorer, or similar romantic thought, the facts of circulation and loss of such a coin are more in line with everyday people conducting normal trade for goods and services, in a period possibly slightly before, or more likely during, the early statehood.

CC Hunter

I really enjoyed ready your post CC Hunter!
This is something I never knew about American history and I love your history!

Dave

 

[CC Hunter]

It's a 1 Franc with King Louis Philippe I on it . Very cool looking coin . Could this have been used here in California before it was a state ? Any info would be great !
HH
Glen

Glen,

Regarding your question and requests for information: In all likelihood, your find was circulating after California came into US possession and control in 1847, following the Mexican-American War. The time period of 1848-1857 fits well within historical records supporting rather conclusively the use and loss probabilities. Additional details regarding French silver Franc coinage in circulation, are included in the earlier post provided.

Interestingly, Louis Phillipe depicted on this coin, was the final king to rule over the French:

LouisPhilippeTxt


CC

 

[Msbeepbeep]

Congrats! You are starting this year off fantastic!

 

[Davers]

I really enjoyed ready your post CC Hunter!
This is something I never knew about American history and I love your history!

Dave

I def. agree ..

Thanks for the lesson. & Awesome find p8man.

 

[The Boots]

1800's plus silver is a great day. Congrats

 

[kuger]

If it was spanish, I wouldn't doubt at all that it was used before American colonization in the 1850's. French, though? The French weren't anywhere near California. If I had to guess, I would say a traveller or trader (maybe a trapper?) lost it while traveling through the area. Many times a lot of them had different country coins because of traveling. If only we knew for sure... Cool find and thanks for sharing.

You need to brush up on your Calif history!!

Great chunk of Silver Glen!I will have to look back but I beleive mine is a 1835?The several I know of coming from Calif. have all been "earlier"

 

[VERDE]

Hey pl8man!! CONGRATS Really Neat Find!! Don't you wish it could talk and tell you the story of how it got there?? GOOD LUCK and GOOD HUNTING!! VERDE!!

 

[billpa]

Don't see those everyday,nice silver coin.

 

[DiggItUp]

You need to brush up on your Calif history!! Great chunk of Silver Glen!I will have to look back but I beleive mine is a 1835?The several I know of coming from Calif. have all been "earlier"

What do you mean? French never colonized or occupied California. French currency was used as well as Spanish. The French silver probably came from somewhere else, and someone dropped by a trader or someone. Not sure what I said that was incorrect.

 

[kuger]

What do you mean? French never colonized or occupied California. French currency was used as well as Spanish. The French silver probably came from somewhere else, and someone dropped by a trader or someone. Not sure what I said that was incorrect.

There were thousands of French that flooded here along with every other Nationality during the Gold rush,and as just the case with the commonality of Reals that date to the 1700's,that were used as Legal tender,many of the foreign,and even Domestic coinage found far pre dates Calif Statehood .I have often heard the scenario of finding a coin your pocket or change at the store that is 50+ years old.Sorry,I guess I mis-interpreted what your statement was saying. Great read of the discovery of Yosemite is the Journal of Nicholas Perlot,a Frenchman(recently heard there is a movie in the making of this)

 

[mr_larry]

Nice job Glen! That coin is ancient by California standards!

 

[pl8man]

Nice job Glen! That coin is ancient by California standards!

It's my 2nd coin from the 1830's . The other one was a 1834 Capped Bust dime that was on a chain worn as a pendent . Thanks Larry
Glen

 

[Gridwalker306]

Keepers PL8...only two weeks into 2014, and you are killing it! First a Morgan, now this super oldie--awesome! Along with Antiquarian, I too am jealous of your green grass...

 

[pl8man]

Keepers PL8...only two weeks into 2014, and you are killing it! First a Morgan, now this super oldie--awesome! Along with Antiquarian, I too am jealous of your green grass...

The grass is green but man do we need the rain here in California !

 

[CC Hunter]

John David Borthwick, Scottish physician, journalist, and noted author; traveled throughout California during the period 1851-1854. Regarding the French Franc coins in California, he writes:

The want of coin was equally felt in San Francisco, and coins of all countries were taken into circulation to make up the deficiency. As yet a mint had not been granted to California, but there was a Government Assay Office, which issued a large octagonal gold piece of the value of fifty dollars a roughly executed coin, about twice the bulk of a crown-piece ; while the greater part of the five, ten, and twenty dollar pieces were not from the United States Mint,
but were coined and issued by private firms in San Francisco.

Silver was still more scarce, and many pieces were consequently current at much more than their value. A quarter of a dollar was the lowest appreciable sum represented by coin, and any piece approaching it in size was equally current at the same rate. A franc passed for a quarter of a dollar while a five-franc piece only passed for a dollar, which is about its actual worth. As a natural consequence of francs being thus taken at 25 per cent. More than their real value, large quantities of them were imported and put into circulation. In 1854, however, the bankers refused to receive them, and they gradually disappeared.

J. D. Borthwick, Three Tears in California, 1857
​

CC Hunter

 

[pl8man]

John David Borthwick, Scottish physician, journalist, and noted author; traveled throughout California during the period 1851-1854. Regarding the French Franc coins in California, he writes:

The want of coin was equally felt in San Francisco, and coins of all countries were taken into circulation to make up the deficiency. As yet a mint had not been granted to California, but there was a Government Assay Office, which issued a large octagonal gold piece of the value of fifty dollars a roughly executed coin, about twice the bulk of a crown-piece ; while the greater part of the five, ten, and twenty dollar pieces were not from the United States Mint,
but were coined and issued by private firms in San Francisco.

Silver was still more scarce, and many pieces were consequently current at much more than their value. A quarter of a dollar was the lowest appreciable sum represented by coin, and any piece approaching it in size was equally current at the same rate. A franc passed for a quarter of a dollar while a five-franc piece only passed for a dollar, which is about its actual worth. As a natural consequence of francs being thus taken at 25 per cent. More than their real value, large quantities of them were imported and put into circulation. In 1854, however, the bankers refused to receive them, and they gradually disappeared.

J. D. Borthwick, Three Tears in California, 1857
​

CC Hunter

Great info CC Hunter ! Thanks
Glen

 

[caprock]

During the 1850s, the Santa Clara valley had one of the largest populations of French in CA. They were the pioneer nurserymen, orchardists and winegrowers. Look into names like Delmas and Pellier in San Jose. They also introduced the "French" Prune, originally for brandy and the snail. Some had returned from the mines, but most were part of a large agricultural community that supplied food to the gold region. They were also the first to plant the zinfandel grape for wine. Up in the gold country, nearly every county has a "French Gardens" that dates back to the gold rush.
Great find by the way!

 

[CC Hunter]

There were thousands of French that flooded here along with every other Nationality during the Gold rush,and as just the case with the commonality of Reals that date to the 1700's,that were used as Legal tender,many of the foreign,and even Domestic coinage found far pre dates Calif Statehood .I have often heard the scenario of finding a coin your pocket or change at the store that is 50+ years old.Sorry,I guess I mis-interpreted what your statement was saying. Great read of the discovery of Yosemite is the Journal of Nicholas Perlot,a Frenchman(recently heard there is a movie in the making of this)

The great Gold Rush, set off by a spark in 1848 and growing to an explosion of new arrivals and commerce for California within a short time, saw great influence from the throngs of French eagerly seeking a chance for prosperity in the western frontier. Yet, the French association and presence in California began even before this event.

Noted explorer of early California and the West, John Charles Fremont, his own father being a native of France, was often in the company of Frenchmen. Fremont had earlier been an assistant to French explorer Jean Nicolas Nicollet, charting the lands lying between the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers. Later, French capitalists were heavily invested in Fremont's sprawling California mining estate in the 1860's.

Some of the earliest information on San Francisco between 1786 and the 1840's, came from French explorers, artists, scientists sailing ships outfitted like floating laboratories, and educated trading merchants.
​

In 1841, fresh from the acquisition of Tahiti and the Marquisas, France sent to California diplomatic attache, Eugene Duflont de Morfras, who conducted an exhaustive exploration of California. He produced a superb report that looks like an illustrated catalog of California's early settlements and life in the "Days of the Dons".
​

Yerba Buena already had French residents: Victor Prodon, a French secretary to Mexican governors Juan Bautista Alvarado and later Mariano Guadalupe Vallejo, owned land in the village in the 1830's, as did brothers Francios and Nicolas Lepage. Jose-Yves Limantour opened a temporary store to sell the merchandise salvaged from his ship's wreck at Limantour Spit. Charles Levillain and Loius Auguste Blin lived in the village in the 1840's after jumping ship.

Two of the town's founding fathers were in fact Francophones. French war veteran of Swiss decent Jean-Jacques Vioget prepared the first survey of Yerba Buena, creating the basic plan for much of the physical layout of the city as it exists today. He also opened the first tavern on the coast of California and painted the first view of the city. Dr. Victor Fourgeaud, educated at the Ecole de Medicine in Paris, was also an early member of the small community.
​

French San Francisco, Claudine Chalmers, Ph.D., Arcadia Publishing, 2007, chapter One, p. 9



​

Jean-Nicolas Perlot, was in fact a native of Belgium, being born in Herbeumont in the province of Luxumbourg Belgium in 1823. The correct spelling of his given name, would of course be without an "h", otherwise seen in the more familiar English version of "Nicholas". Perlot set out for California from the French port of Le Havre in 1850, taking up with a company of Frenchmen seeking their fortune in the new land. His accounts and experiences are told in; Gold Seeker: Adventures of a Belgian Argonaut During the Gold Rush Years. Following a number of years of interesting life and adventure in America's West, Perlot returned to his native country in 1872, passing away at the age of 76, in Arlon Belgium in January of 1900.



The topic of influence in California by the French, as well as the citizens of nearly all major countries spanning the globe, can hardly be given proper time nor study in a few short paragraphs.

Claudine Chalmers, in French San Francisco writes in chapter Two;

The year of 1851 can truly be called the year of the French in San Francisco; the Gaillic contingent became so large that a "Frenchtown" sprouted on Long Warf along Commercial and Dupont (now Grant) Streets. Even after the Chinese massive influx started around 1852, the French remained one of the largest foreign contingents in Gold Rush San Francisco and one of its most familiar sights.
​

CC Hunter