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JM,

It's always nice to have some fresh thinkers in the search. Some of us are getting a little stale. Welcome to the fray.

Actually, I do have some thoughts on what Ruth wrote. I believe he hiked up to, just before, Boulder Basin, turned east and climbed up into the saddle separating West and East Boulder Canyons. When he got into the saddle he found the view he was looking for and wrote the Latin phrase you mentioned.

Believe he was killed right there and, eventually, carted over to the back side of Black Top Mesa by those who found his remains.

Also believe this is the view he was looking for:

DelMonteClaim.jpg


So, what were you thinking???

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo
 

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Im not sure being bew to this and all,but that view looks like one of the hand drawn maps. I will have to look the map up to compare. I will post again after i see them both together. Also i have a friend who does survey work. Hes told me his opion of the holes in the stone maps. Im trying to find out where i can get copies. If what he thinks is right. I will im you his opion. Dont want to put it out here just yet. Im trying to arrange a trip to the superstition here soon. If you live in the area,and have time. Maybe we can meet and look at a couple of things together. Safer in numbers. I keep thinking of what waltz said. The mine is in a imginary circle of five miles with weavers needle being the center. So assuming that it not right beside weavers needle but not more than five away. Comparing that with the camp location of everyone who were found dead. Im thinking that we can narrow the search field. I think. Just a theory right now.
 

JM,

Here is the quote you wrote about:

A set of directions to the Lost Dutchman Mine were found when the body of Adolph Ruth was discovered in the Superstition Mountains by Jeff Adams, Tex Barkley, Hosie Cline, Gabriel Robles, and Ace Gardner in January of 1932. These particular directions trace their origin back to an article written by P. C. (Pierpont Constable) Bicknell that appeared in a San Francisco newspaper in 1895.
The history and evolution of these clues provide an interesting case study and hopefully some additional insight into the Adolph Ruth story.
THE CLUES OF P. C. BICKNELL
If we take the Lost Dutchman Mine clue excerpts, from the January 13, 1895 San Francisco Chronicle, Bicknell article, we are left with the following.
Excerpts - January 13, 1895 San Francisco Chronicle
“It lies within an imaginary circle whose diameter is not more than five miles and whose center is marked by the Weaver’s Needle, a prominent and fantastic pinnacle of volcanic tufa that rises to a height of 2500 feet among a confusion of lesser peaks and mountainous masses of basaltic rock,………
“the first gorge on the south side, from the west end of the range” – they found, as he had told them, a monumented trail which led them “northward over a lofty ridge; thence downward past Sombrero Butte into a long canyon running north, and finally to a tributary canyon very deep and rocky, and densely wooded with a continuous thicket of scrub oak.”
The great clew for which all the search is now being made is a rock cabin in a cave, which, according to “Old Yoccup’s” story, is directly across the canyon from the mine, and not more than 200 feet from it. It was here that the two Germans lived while they worked the mine.”
These clues would form the foundation for many of the futures searches for the Lost Dutchman Mine.
_________________________________

It's not really known if these clues came from Jacob Waltz, or the fertile imagination of P.C. Bicknell.

There are many places where you can find good information on the LDM. I would suggest one of the places you check out
is here:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.../ruth/Adolph Ruth's Directions to the LDM.pdf

You will also find good research on the Stone Maps. Actually, it's the best to be found on a public site.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo
 

This part from the ortiz letter says the same thing at one point.
(The first gorge on the south side)
 

I see your point. I went and looked at the handrawn maps. There is one that looks very simlar to your pic. For give me if im wrong,but i think its called the watz map. Again im still trying to learn as i go. I really feel that i need to make a trip and put boots on the ground.
 

cactusjumper said:
JM,

Here is the quote you wrote about:

A set of directions to the Lost Dutchman Mine were found when the body of Adolph Ruth was discovered in the Superstition Mountains by Jeff Adams, Tex Barkley, Hosie Cline, Gabriel Robles, and Ace Gardner in January of 1932. These particular directions trace their origin back to an article written by P. C. (Pierpont Constable) Bicknell that appeared in a San Francisco newspaper in 1895.
The history and evolution of these clues provide an interesting case study and hopefully some additional insight into the Adolph Ruth story.
THE CLUES OF P. C. BICKNELL
If we take the Lost Dutchman Mine clue excerpts, from the January 13, 1895 San Francisco Chronicle, Bicknell article, we are left with the following.
Excerpts - January 13, 1895 San Francisco Chronicle
“It lies within an imaginary circle whose diameter is not more than five miles and whose center is marked by the Weaver’s Needle, a prominent and fantastic pinnacle of volcanic tufa that rises to a height of 2500 feet among a confusion of lesser peaks and mountainous masses of basaltic rock,.........
“the first gorge on the south side, from the west end of the range” – they found, as he had told them, a monumented trail which led them “northward over a lofty ridge; thence downward past Sombrero Butte into a long canyon running north, and finally to a tributary canyon very deep and rocky, and densely wooded with a continuous thicket of scrub oak.”
The great clew for which all the search is now being made is a rock cabin in a cave, which, according to “Old Yoccup’s” story, is directly across the canyon from the mine, and not more than 200 feet from it. It was here that the two Germans lived while they worked the mine.”
These clues would form the foundation for many of the futures searches for the Lost Dutchman Mine.
_________________________________

It's not really known if these clues came from Jacob Waltz, or the fertile imagination of P.C. Bicknell.

There are many places where you can find good information on the LDM. I would suggest one of the places you check out
is here:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gcundiff/LostDutchman/ruth/Adolph%20Ruth%27s%20Directions%20to%20the%20LDM.pdf

You will also find good research on the Stone Maps. Actually, it's the best to be found on a public site.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo
Click to expand...

Oh i see. I was under the impression that the dutchman made that statement. So without knowing weather he did/didnt. The clue holds litte wait.
Here is a question. While the peralts were minning. Where did they store the ore. They had to keep it protected. Does anyone have an idea.
Thanks for the link,but can you resend it. I cant get it to work.
 

roadrunner said:
This part from the ortiz letter says the same thing at one point.
(The first gorge on the south side)
Click to expand...


What is the ortiz letter.
 

I have to repeat this on a regular basis as many new people are coming on the site.

I don't exchange private messages with people until they provide me with their real names, phone number, email address and home address.

I fully understand why some would be reluctant to provide that information, but if you trust me with your information it will never be given to anyone else. In return, I will give you my information back.

Joe Ribaudo
 

Im so sorry joe. I really thought that i had sent you my info. I will send it again. Thanks for pointing that out to me.
 

JM,

No problem. Thanks for the information. There should be a message for you.

Take care,

Joe
 

johnmark29020 said:
What is the ortiz letter.
Click to expand...
I will let Joe answer that as he is way better than me.
All i know is this letter was suppose to be some sort of exact directions from someone to someone else that knew it from Waltz.
Or from the Peraltas. Help me Joe.
I have a copy of the letter.From the internet.
Joe, I will send you my info as i have a couple questions since I live over here by Queen Creek, and Hewitt Station road.
And Picket Post.
 

PERFIL MAP.webp This looks like the Perfil Map to me. There`s four peaks there too.
 

Connecticut Sam said:
I would had lost my mind if I wasted time looking for these treasures.
Click to expand...

CS,

Fact is, I never wasted one minute researching and searching in the Superstition Mountains. The memories are worth so much more than I ever spent, in money.........or time.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo
 

The problem with the LDM story is the information available is tainted beyond repair. Unless you were at the death bed and heard first hand the story you base your search on bad clues. The older the information the less tainted. The trick is getting the oldest information. Looking at things found in the area I believe there is more of a chance of other treasure deposits in the mountains than the LDM
Joe have you not spent most of your time on searching for those other deposits because you know of those things found.
As you know I value your opinion. It will be nice to see you again next week.
 

Steve,

Thank you for your kind words and confidence in my opinions. I'm not really sure it is well deserved, but they are always honest opinions.

Any searches I did, for myself, were for LaFrance's cave of gold bars. Because my Uncle told me about that initial search and what brought it about, I knew that he did hold one of the gold bars in his hands. Everything else, in my opinion, is just legend. Damn good legends, but still as muddled as you have stated. Others who also saw the gold bar, and talked to me about it, were also part of my convincing to the truth of the story.

As I have stated before, while I have done a great deal of personal research into a number of stories, my greatest asset has been, and remains, some of the best sources who ever searched the Superstitions.

I can assure you that it will be my pleasure to see you, and hopefully, Kathi next week. I will be setting around and doing little more than visiting my friends, and some who are not so friendly, next week.

Take care,

Joe
 

Frank,

My apologies. It does not seem to get any better as the body and mind slowly deteriorates. Fortunately, I have not gotten to the point where I am calling Carolyn by another name. Just to be safe, I usually just call her Darlin.:icon_scratch:

Take care,

Joe
 

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