Fugio, Barber Half, 1600s Buckles, Eagle Button Surprise, Property Owner Shakedown

[Silver Tree Chaser]

It’s been a while since I last posted some finds, so here are some highlights from several recent hunts and some comments. Feedback on the subject matter at the end of post are welcomed.

Despite exposure to the elements, this 1787 Fugio copper found on Saturday has just enough details for a variety ID. For pre-federal and early state-issued coppers, variety ID is a must, as even a corroded, unsightly copper can prove to be a tremendous recovery if you happen to recover an ultra-rare variety. This Fugio looked the part with club rays, but it proved to be a more common W-6505, Newman 10-T variety, as listed in Bowers’ book. It still beats a KGII by a whole lot. It’s the best preserved Fugio of the three that I’ve now recovered over the years. It was found at a cellar hole that offered up a GWI button last year.





Along with the Fugio, I recovered a nice, decorative dandy button only a few feet away. I haven’t found one as nice as this specimen in a few years. I also dug another copper nearby, but it was toasted. Finally, the site offered a silver coin. I was certain of it being a Liberty Seated coin, but it was a Barber dime perhaps dropped by a hunter. It was very dark with toning, but I cooked it with electrolysis, which always yields great results. See before and after images.











Here’s a 1909 Barber Half from a farm field that’s offered up a few Spanish cobs years ago. The property owner is a 3rd generation farmer, so I gave him the coin. His grandad started the farm in 1913 and perhaps even lost the coin. I was glad to give it to him; his mother was born on the same year — 1909. I got the case for the coin online for about $2 a piece. It’s a good deal — the clear cover is glass and won’t scratch like gem cases.



I’ve dug a small number of Civil War buttons over the years, but this one from another cellar hole came with a surprise. Along with a trace of gilt, the button’s loop held what I mistook for a root. It’s actually 160+ year old thread still tied in place! Now that soldier knew how to tie a knot. Along with the eagle button, I came upon a Civil War period lice comb while digging along the foundation. It’s made of ebonite, vulcanized natural rubber patented by Charles Goodyear in 1844. What’s not to know in the age of internet? This type of lice comb was typically carried by soldiers in the Civil War.





Another cellar hole, another find to keep me going. It’s a saloon token from 1863.





So last few finds are in a group shot below — two 17th century spur buckles, an 18th century shoe buckle, and perhaps a gun part owing to the GR (King George) stamp.



And here’s the story behind these finds. These finds are from a promising site dating back to the 1640’s and now situated in a hay field. I rarely recover intact spur buckles from the 1600’s. I recovered other finds as well, but sadly no coins. I worked the site for a good eight hours, but I’m certain that a great deal more remains to be found. So what’s my problem? I like to be forthright with property owners, so disclose everything that I recover and understand that they might wish to have a portion of what is found or even half of everything, although such a request has never been made before — until now. The woman who owns the property wants all of it — everything. I have all the finds at this time, as I told that I would preserve it for her first. It’s now all cleaned up, and I’m going to let her have it — all of it. I have a few thoughts on the whole experience, but I’ll only share this one view — she’ll get 100% of what I’ve found, but 0% of everything else that still remains uncovered. I’m sure I could find a great deal more and would have been happy to share it equitably with the property owner, but as it stands at present, what remains buried on her property will never see the light of day. I will tell her exactly this respectfully. Perhaps she will have a change of heart, but I’m not sure of any further relations regardless of her repsponse. There’s more to the story than I care to relate. Thanks for looking and good hunting to all.

 

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[Aureus]

Great finds! Those are some of the nicest 1600's buckles I have seen recovered. I sure hope the landowner will become more reasonable but I have seen this type in the past. I usually offer to buy back my finds as they prefer cash to the relics... Anyways, good luck on your future hunts and hopefully the win win solution will be found.
P.S. I would probably still hit that site, even if I lost the relics afterwards. The thrill of finding them is a big part of it.

 

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[Silver Tree Chaser]

Thanks for all the comments. Replies from members varied widely, offering sound advice, kind encouragement, and a few good laughs. I had a buddy suggest that I rebury the finds in her backyard and tell her to have at it. I’m going to stick with my original plan. If it doesn’t turn out well, I can thankfully count this as the only time I’ve had such an experience over many years of detecting. In the past, I’ve disclosed some valuable finds to property owners — an Oak Tree shilling, a GWI button, 18th century gold cufflinks — they never asked for anything. As one of them remarked, “I’m not going out there with a shovel to go looking, so why shouldn’t you have it.” If this current situation turns out bad, oh well, the good far outweighs the bad.

I want to mention one more detail about this experience. Believe it or not, the same woman owns a second site nearby. It’s a huge cellar hole dating back to the late 17th century - Ben Franklin supposedly stayed at this house when traveling. The site was marked with “NO TRESPASSING” signs. I requested permission for a search and she refused. I asked her to reconsider several years later, and so she gave her approval. Only a few days before my first big search, I spoke by phone with a bottle digger that I had recently met. We talked about digging together, and he suggested this fantastic site for digging bottles — the same site that I just got permission to dig! When I asked how he had secured permission and mentioned the trespassing signs, he replied — “It’s easier to beg for forgiveness, then beg for permission.” With some dismay, I asked if he had done much digging. He replied, “Are you kidding? For a few years, I dug the bleep out of that place.” I still searched the site, as best I could between all the trenches left behind by the jerk. I found one large cent and not much else. I gave the coin to the owner, and now she’s expecting the finds from the other site as well. Really, I think it’s all a bit funny. It helps to remind me that this is a hobby to be enjoyed, regardless of the outcome. But this has been a bit bewildering. What path to take? Honest to a fault, trespassing thief, or somewhere in between?
Thanks for listening.

 

[Lanny in AB]

Wow!! Way to score!

Nicely done, and all the best,

Lanny

 

[Ahab8]

Thanks for all the comments. Replies from members varied widely, offering sound advice, kind encouragement, and a few good laughs. I had a buddy suggest that I rebury the finds in her backyard and tell her to have at it. I’m going to stick with my original plan. If it doesn’t turn out well, I can thankfully count this as the only time I’ve had such an experience over many years of detecting. In the past, I’ve disclosed some valuable finds to property owners — an Oak Tree shilling, a GWI button, 18th century gold cufflinks — they never asked for anything. As one of them remarked, “I’m not going out there with a shovel to go looking, so why shouldn’t you have it.” If this current situation turns out bad, oh well, the good far outweighs the bad.

I want to mention one more detail about this experience. Believe it or not, the same woman owns a second site nearby. It’s a huge cellar hole dating back to the late 17th century - Ben Franklin supposedly stayed at this house when traveling. The site was marked with “NO TRESPASSING” signs. I requested permission for a search and she refused. I asked her to reconsider several years later, and so she gave her approval. Only a few days before my first big search, I spoke by phone with a bottle digger that I had recently met. We talked about digging together, and he suggested this fantastic site for digging bottles — the same site that I just got permission to dig! When I asked how he had secured permission and mentioned the trespassing signs, he replied — “It’s easier to beg for forgiveness, then beg for permission.” With some dismay, I asked if he had done much digging. He replied, “Are you kidding? For a few years, I dug the bleep out of that place.” I still searched the site, as best I could between all the trenches left behind by the jerk. I found one large cent and not much else. I gave the coin to the owner, and now she’s expecting the finds from the other site as well. Really, I think it’s all a bit funny. It helps to remind me that this is a hobby to be enjoyed, regardless of the outcome. But this has been a bit bewildering. What path to take? Honest to a fault, trespassing thief, or somewhere in between?
Thanks for listening.

Honest to a fault my friend. Then you can always look yourself in the mirror and know that you did things the right way. That’s worth more than a few coins and relics will ever be. I admire Bucks take on the situation and have also done this for a property (who asked for nothing) and it felt great. But I always wonder to myself would I struggle with giving up a colonial gold coin or a Mass silver or something similar. It’s easy to give away Large Cents and the like. You’re a good guy and I know you will do what you believe is right. None of us can tell you what that is. Good luck

 

[pepperj]

Sure I'll beat myself silly hunting for something they lost, jewellery, tractor parts, property stakes, family related are all handed over with a smile and without remorse.
I have permissions of a church and a school in a hamlet that have never been detected and the owner wants everything, I have no desire to dig for the sake of just to digging, it might happen when I run through my other 5000 acres of permissions.
She's mentioned it a couple of times now, and the next time I will give her my hourly rate that I would charge for retrieval and preservation of finds.

I would like to add to this person that has asked me to hunt her two locations. She's an author of a great local historical book, and what has gotten caught in her craw is the permission she obtained for a fellow 30+ years ago for a fair ground. "Well he kept everything!" So the memory of this still sours her to this day.

Funny thing I met this old gentleman that owned a Garret machine, and detect his land. He in fact was the guy who hunted the fair grounds and I didn't know the connection while hearing his side of the account. "I found a few coppers and a silver dime there, lots of trash, bottle caps ha,ha". This fellow is going on 90yrs of age, a true gentleman that one would ever meet.
Nothing to hide as honest as they come as he told me of late 18C fair grounds that he couldn't get permission of, but maybe the land owner has changed since those days of his passion of digging in the dirt.
Two different accounts on one location.
He made out like a bandit, in the eyes of the local historian.
Actually he was just a fellow that dug a few keepers, and really didn't think about it any longer, until we chatted 30+ yrs later in his kitchen.

 

[gwdigger]

Boy it'd be tough to part with the Fleur de lis knop end buckle. What an awesome find. Don't have one. I do have an old site with similar circumstances tho.

 

[hogge]

One of the main reasons I don't hunt peoples property, or ask permission. We find our own spots, away from public eye, and out in the vast wilderness!

 

[CMDiamonddawg]

Interesting buckle

 

[grasshopper]

Great finds, and yes, quite the dilemma you have on your hands.

One homeowner requested that he get to keep everything I found. I didn't feel bad because the house was owned by the descendants of the original owners, so stuff I was finding was lost by his ancestors.

For me personally, I would never pass up the opportunity to dig somewhere (especially that old) just because I had to turn everything over. I don't sell anything, and even some of more interesting finds I've made, I marvel over for a few days or weeks then it generally sits somewhere without being touched too often after that.

Did she tell you why she wanted to keep everything? If the reasons are strictly monetary, you might want to try explaining to her that 95% of the stuff we find isn't worth much at all. If she is genuinely interested in the history, perhaps it will make you feel a little bit better about turning over your finds.

I'm not disagreeing with you and completely understand your perspective. It sucks going through the all the trouble and emotions of finding everything just to hand it over. I hope it all works out for you in the end!!

Regards to the bottle digger story... If that was me talking to him he would have heard an earful...


Amazing finds by the way. Those buckles are absolutely stunning and I'd kill to find something like that.

 

[Pittsfield Bob]

What do you value (money wise) your time at? Tell your Dear Friend that you will detect that tavern, but for an hourly fee. X dollars/hour, minimum 4 hour search. I wouldn't do it for less than $40.00/hour. If you get a "nibble", have the property owner sign a contract!

 

[sprailroad]

Hello!

First off, the GR piece is a keyhole cover from a lock.

Concerning The situation with the property owner, I would personally have no trouble giving everything to a property owner. I have done so many times in the past, without them asking for anything. I have also had property owners that wanted everything, and I was happy to give them everything. I simply requested that they allow me to preserve the items properly for future generations, and photograph everything. Unless we are lucky enough to own a dozen square miles of land ourselves, we aren’t able to even do our hobby but for the kindness of others. Also, once you’ve detected as long as I have, your house is overrun with things. If you are a collector, then as your collection grows you’ll find yourself looking at each of your finds less and less, because there is simply too much to see at once! Why worry about giving something away? I find myself doing this more and more, giving things I’ve dug to owners.

Would you rather find the items and give them away or never find them at all? The answer to that question will inform your decision.

BuckleBoy, I understand what you are saying, and since your "House is overrun with things" perhaps now would be a good time to return everything you have ever found? Including all of the 2018 Canefield Bandits Totals? I'm just saying......

 

[huntsman53]

While I respect everyone's opinion and take on this matter, even those that are willing to give all of their' finds over to the property owners especially if they are the descendants of the original settlers/owners, metal detecting costs money and time and for some folks and locations, the cost is more than others. I have invested thousands of dollars in metal detectors and to often travel long distances to a permission, metal detect for hours and go through many dollars worth of batteries as well as my time and to not come away with something, just does not sit right with me. Most of us dig and remove trash from these properties and we also have lots of wear and tear on our' equipment not to mention the gas costs to get there and back home and then the wear and tear on the old muscles and bones. I would draw up three different contracts, have two copies of each for each permission and after talking to the property owners and agreeing upon the terms between you and property owner, pull out the appropriate contract, fill in the blanks and both sign each copy (one for you and one for the property owner). One (#1) contract would stipulate that you are allowed to metal detect the property and keep everything you find if you so chose and that you will assume all liability concerning injuries to yourself. The second (#2) would include all of the aforementioned language in #1 but stipulate that the finds will be distributed between you and the property owner equally. The third (#3) again would include all the aforementioned language in #1 but stipulate that the property owner will receive all of the finds that you make and that you charge a specific dollar amount per hour to search for and dig those finds for the property owner. Again as I stated, I respect everyone's opinion and take on this matter and hope you will do the same for me!

 

[Silver Tree Chaser]

For anyone interested in knowing what became of my recent experience, I stopped by at the owner's house with everything I found. I put the buckles in a small clear case with a cloth backing as a gesture of good will. The owner and her daughter admired what I had recovered, and the daughter asked, "So will you be coming back to search further?" I replied that her mom drove a hard bargain. I then took the moment to remind her mom, the owner, that I too liked to have some of what I recover. I told her that she could have everything as she insisted, but added that an equitable division, 50 - 50, of everything else still to be recovered, which I could find in time, would be far more than what she had at present. She said, "I'll keep what I've got." She added that she's preserving everything else - in the ground. And that was it. Not even a thank you. On the way out, she added "I do enjoy your company, so please come and visit again." Perhaps she might ask that I cut her grass on a future visit? Anyway, I left with a smile. Taking the high road is not easy; however, I've found my share of fantastic finds at other properties, and those land owners never once enquired about their share. So overall, people have been very good. I won't let one unfortunate experience change my outlook.

 

[dirtdigginfool]

You made some really nice finds. Congratulations.
I would be livid at that kind of greed.
My neighbor's son owns a 75 acre farm in Virginia. He also leases 300 acres. Both parcels are part of a location where a battle took place during the Civil War.
As far as he knows, nobody has metal detected on his land. The last time he visited, (Christmas), he was open to me hunting it. His stepmother told me that his wife suddenly wants half of everything I find. Unless something changes, I won't be swinging a coil over that dirt.

ATW...I would certainly be up for a deal like that...half of ten is five...right? Five lbs of iron, Ma'am, where Ya want it? Ddf

 

[Tnmountains]

Great hunt. I feel your pain. It has happened to me also. I gave them everything out of my pouch and walked away. Never went back. I now am up front on sharing some if they want it but not going to give everything. I also ask them if they want me to check in when I leave. I try to set it up where I can come and go with out stopping unless they request it. Lost many great archeological sites because of other hunters not asking permission at all.
You are a good hunter and will find a better spot now.
HH
Oh yeah the electrolysis on that coin did well how long did you cook it and what catalyst to start it?

 

[CRUSADER]

I like the spur buckles, I need a whole version of the left one.

 

[park pirate]

Outstanding hunt...

 

[Rick (Nova Scotia)]

For anyone interested in knowing what became of my recent experience, I stopped by at the owner's house with everything I found. I put the buckles in a small clear case with a cloth backing as a gesture of good will. The owner and her daughter admired what I had recovered, and the daughter asked, "So will you be coming back to search further?" I replied that her mom drove a hard bargain. I then took the moment to remind her mom, the owner, that I too liked to have some of what I recover. I told her that she could have everything as she insisted, but added that an equitable division, 50 - 50, of everything else still to be recovered, which I could find in time, would be far more than what she had at present. She said, "I'll keep what I've got." She added that she's preserving everything else - in the ground. And that was it. Not even a thank you. On the way out, she added "I do enjoy your company, so please come and visit again." Perhaps she might ask that I cut her grass on a future visit? Anyway, I left with a smile. Taking the high road is not easy; however, I've found my share of fantastic finds at other properties, and those land owners never once enquired about their share. So overall, people have been very good. I won't let one unfortunate experience change my outlook.

That really does complete the picture of her personality. Not even a thank you. Yeah my idea would have been good for her.
Maybe you out-live her, and you'll be good with the daughter ?
Anyway everyone is different, and like you said she is only one. Life too short to dwell on such things.

 

[CRUSADER]

For anyone interested in knowing what became of my recent experience, I stopped by at the owner's house with everything I found. I put the buckles in a small clear case with a cloth backing as a gesture of good will. The owner and her daughter admired what I had recovered, and the daughter asked, "So will you be coming back to search further?" I replied that her mom drove a hard bargain. I then took the moment to remind her mom, the owner, that I too liked to have some of what I recover. I told her that she could have everything as she insisted, but added that an equitable division, 50 - 50, of everything else still to be recovered, which I could find in time, would be far more than what she had at present. She said, "I'll keep what I've got." She added that she's preserving everything else - in the ground. And that was it. Not even a thank you. On the way out, she added "I do enjoy your company, so please come and visit again." Perhaps she might ask that I cut her grass on a future visit? Anyway, I left with a smile. Taking the high road is not easy; however, I've found my share of fantastic finds at other properties, and those land owners never once enquired about their share. So overall, people have been very good. I won't let one unfortunate experience change my outlook.

Odd lady, we have never had this ever happen to us & we show every land-owner everything we find. As a general rule they get about 25% of our finds (not that we put it in those terms), but every owner varies. We do however spilt any valuable finds 50/50.

 

[Silver Tree Chaser]

Great hunt. I feel your pain. It has happened to me also. I gave them everything out of my pouch and walked away. Never went back. I now am up front on sharing some if they want it but not going to give everything. I also ask them if they want me to check in when I leave. I try to set it up where I can come and go with out stopping unless they request it. Lost many great archeological sites because of other hunters not asking permission at all.
You are a good hunter and will find a better spot now.
HH
Oh yeah the electrolysis on that coin did well how long did you cook it and what catalyst to start it?

For the electrolysis, I used simple baking soda with tap water and cooked it 45 seconds or so, then 30 seconds, then about 20 seconds till I was satisfied with the result. I wiped the coin down with mineral oil between cooks, and the dark toning comes off with ease. No heavy rubbing required. I use to scour with a paste of wet baking soda as a mild abrasive, but the oil does a much better job. I've had some great results with this method. Here's the end result on a Liberty Seated coin with dark toning that would have required a lot of physical cleaning (rubbing) to remove. Electrolysis and mineral oil works wonders.