Gary's Sonar program what are the settings?

[gene the machine]

I just watched a Gary Blackwell video that he calls the Sonar program. It sounded good but he didn't say what the settings were. Have any of you heard what the settings are? Thanks Here's the link.

 

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[gene the machine]

oops.. sorry. I just found the Sonar program. I guess the first video I saw was the test Sonar program.
Here's the link to the Sonar video:

 

[MetalArchSC]

Looks like a good program. I’ll give it a try tomorrow. Thanks.

 

[vferrari]

If you are in a UK field searching for hammered coins, sounds awesome. I don't see much application for what I do relic hunting in the US, unless perhaps if I was specifically targeting spanish silver. Even then, I can't imagine getting much depth at Rx 4, frankly. Since he has zero discrimination cut in, he basically created a two-tone program from the 3 tone program which he was forced to do with no usable ferrous break point (hence why the "bottom" tone bar graph was blank). Also, since he is setting the the high tone break at 9, I am not seeing any advantage over simply using my standard pitch program with iron volume and at least by setting disc at 9 you have a functional horseshoe and can perhaps prevent ferrous down averaging. Two interesting tidbits were use of the "Deep" program filters and being able to identify coke on X-Y screen. Otherwise, if you do plan to use it as a US detectorist, be aware of the inherent limitations of the settings he is using a remember the environment he is using the Deus in (in terms of soil, modern trash, and targets in the UK) is far different than in the US and so if you don't understand the basis for his settings, you may be in for disappointment. Gary apparently loathes using discrimination for some reason and I see more downsides to not using discrimination than to using it. Of course, if Deus didn't provide an iron volume feature, I might be using no disc more frequently.

 

[Professor of Engineering]

Thanks for sharing!

 

[vferrari]

Oh, and despite not necessarily being a fan of Gary's SONAR program in this case, I could watch him all day long. He always passes along a couple of useful tidbits such that even if you don't see a direct application of the program he is touting, you definitely can take something useful away from his discussion that you can file away or immediately apply to your detecting knowledge bank. Love his videos. Thanks, Gene, for posting them here and making us aware of them.

 

[Jeff H]

It is counterintuitive but I have found more good targets in heavy iron with Reactivity of 1 then I have with Reactivity of 4. As V says, you just loose too much depth. I will say though that I have found shallow tiny buttons in extreme iron with Reactivity of 4, that were even iffy when I checked them at R=3. Nothing wrong with finishing up a site by detecting using those "extreme" settings like R=4, but if you just hit a site using only Sonar-like settings, you will leave a lot of targets in the ground in my opinion.

I love Gary's vids too. Like the rest of us, he has his own personal preferences on how he likes to hunt. Even though my style is much different than his, I still learn a lot from the man. Too much snow on the ground here. I think I will watch a couple of Gary's vids instead.

 

[Possum]

Thanks for sharing Gene... "D"

 

[MetalArchSC]

Gary’s SONAR program

@Gene ...Did you get to try the Gary’s Sonar program? I finally did. Even though the settings seemed not the ones I would normally use, I figured just maybe it would be worth a try. Glad I did. Went to a spot I’ve hunted for 2 years straight. And I mean almost daily. Thought surely I picked it clean. Hunted it with 3 different machines and hit it hard. Grid and in every direction. A lot off iron left there so I wasn’t expecting good results. Using the sonar program which I immediately noticed DOES hit hard on non ferrous... I managed to find a few pieces of brass objects that somehow I missed. So I decided to test it in my test garden on a silver dime partly on edge at 10” in red dirt... in my mind this would be the ultimate test. No other program I’ve used on the Deus using either HF or the 11” x35 coil has been able to hit it. The mineralized dirt did give the normal grunt tone BUT a very faint high tone was audible enough to conclude that I will be keeping this program. To me that’s pretty impressive. I did tweek the program slightly and was running the frequency at 28 with the Eliptical HF coil. I also created and tested the same program built from the Deus Fast and one built off of the HOT program. They both failed to hit the dime like the program built from the DEEP program. I’m going to try the program out at another site that I didn’t have luck on.

I don’t know how it will work in other’s soil conditions. I have all types where I am. From sandy loom to red clay dirt. Worked for me. IMO one shouldn’t knock it til one tries it. This isn’t the first time that a “NEW” program has surprised me.

 

[vferrari]

Try a lower reactivity setting and see how it does and with disc at 8 to see how it does. The deep program does have different filtering and that might be the key versus Gary’s specific settings which seem to favor shallower targets.

 

[MetalArchSC]

Try a lower reactivity setting and see how it does and with disc at 8 to see how it does. The deep program does have different filtering and that might be the key versus Gary’s specific settings which seem to favor shallower targets.

If it’s not broke don’t fix it. Works as is for me. Just bumped up suggested frequency to 28 on a whim because I was using HF coil. Any small changes made to Deus programs can completely screw things up.

 

[gene the machine]

thanks for doing all of this. i will check it out asap and lyk how i do.

 

[vferrari]

If it’s not broke don’t fix it. Works as is for me. Just bumped up suggested frequency to 28 on a whim because I was using HF coil. Any small changes made to Deus programs can completely screw things up.

Lol - agree in principle with that addage, for sure. Can't argue much with success. But in this case I am not just making some random suggestions but trying to give you clues on how you can perhaps improve on your success.

By all means, feel free to knock youself out continuing to use reactivity 4. There are occasional pleasant surprises with unconventional settings, but understanding the underlying principles and basis for the settings can help you tweak a suggested program to your advantage because your local targets of interest, trash conditions, and even soil conditions can greatly affect how a given program performs. Finding coins where you previously pounded a site with another detector could merely be a function of using the Deus there regardless of settings and some tweaks might even uncover additional finds in your hunted out site.

I take it you don't quite understand why I am making these suggestions, but if you do want to know how reactivity affects depth or how discrimination can make the horseshoe depth/ferrous indicator work properly and prevents ferrous down averaging or how the other settings can be tweaked to your advantage, let me know.

I plan to experiment with the sonar program and talk with Gary, hopefully, this weekend and ask him and Andy Sabisch more about it at this weekend's Deus training session. 4 years on and I am still learning Deus even while I am teaching, new and experienced users alike, the basics and advanced tips at the field training sessions I periodically assist with instructing. An old horse can learn new tricks, but you don't have to tell me how small changes can screw up the Deus, especially when the user may know little about how the settings affect performance and how the settings interact with each other to improve or diminish performance. I literally helped write the book on that. Lol. But slight tweaks of some of the settings I suggested are something you can try on that on-edge dime in your test garden to see if it helps. If not, no harm done, just revert back to Gary's settings.

HTH

 

[MetalArchSC]

Well, I forgot mention that I didn’t keep the reactivity at 4 because I was using the HF coil at frequency 28. Sorry to those who already read my post and don’t see this updated info.

Bit about me...I’m not specifically a coin hunter. I hunt relics and I’m happy to occasionally pop a coin out the hole. I’ve been dectecting bout 15 years now. The past 3 years Ive been doing it on a DAILY basis. As for other machines I’ve owned, and still own and have used in my pounded late 1800s site, there has been many. The only one I haven’t used there is my GPX 5000. Anyone who knows that machine knows why and I really don’t need to get into that.

I appreciate V for chiming in with suggestions for those who are just starting out with the Deus or only have been detecting a few years ...you do provide information in a way that is both Informative and easy to understand. My point was only made to help those new to the Deus when I said that the slightest changes to the Deus can also hinder performance as well as help it and that perhaps giving Gary’s suggested program a try before tweeking it ...might surprise others as it surprised me. There are two videos. One he is using the HF coil. One he is using the x35. He did quickly mentioned alternative settings

All that being said, I agree that 4 would be a bit much for the HF coil I was using at my site However, in the video, Gary shows that in his soil and in a pocket of iron, his settings performed well. So why not give it a try the way it is before messing with it? I’m glad I did is all. May not work for everyone but how many suggested programs DO across the board?

For those new to the Deus....There is no one program that does it all in every soil in every condition. Don’t “knock yourself out” by believing that. Don’t over tweek preinstalled programs while just learning. Ultimately, time using the Deus yields the greatest success.

 

[vferrari]

Um ok. Not sure why changing reactivity would be dictated by using the HF coil, plus you never mention what reactivity you are using. Next to using Deep as the base, the key parameter in question with Gary's program IS reactivity. If you changed that and frequency, it really isn't the sonar program anymore just a variation on the deep program without disc for relic hunting. Kind of an important detail to leave out and if you did change it why not say that instead of a dismissive, if it aint broke dont fix it reply to my suggestion.

I certainly can knock programs before I try them at this stage precisely because I understand how the settings affect performance. The first thing we teach is don't just indiscriminately load up a program without understanding the effect of the settings precisely because you can screw up the detector performance unwittingly. I am all for experimentation and trying unconventional settings, but if you already changed the settings of concern in the original program, then it sounds like we are in violent agreement. Lol.

I do plan on doing some detailed fast vs. Deep program comparisons in the field instruction session this weekend.

Not sure where you are located, but if that is red Virginia dirt you are referring to, perhaps I will see you out in the fields relic hunting someday. Heading out for a week of relic hunting bliss right after some Deus instruction this weekend.

Happy hunting, sir.

 

[smokeythecat]

Actually, I tried the program with the deep program, tweaks as described in the first post with the HF elliptical coil, and tried it a couple ways. With reactivity at 3 and also at 4. 28 khz.

It did pretty well. Of course it sounds different. I set it up as a permanent program on my Deus. It was very easy to toggle between this and the standard Deus Fast program. I was in moderate ground at a home site with lots of iron. Got a CW Henry cartridge case, (think that's what it is), a brass thimble, a couple .22 bullets from newer hunting adventures and some other stuff we had missed before. We have really pounded this spot, so this wasn't bad at all.

I toggled between the two programs to see it there was much of a difference. There was not a huge amount, but since I mostly dig it all anyway, that might not be relevant. But it does work well.

 

[MetalArchSC]

Hmm you must not have comprehended completely Gary’s videos. His focus was on tones and tone breaks. That’s what the sonar program was all about....SONAR...The tone that “ stops you in your tracks. He only suggested the frequency he likes to use. It’s not written in stone my friend. As for reactivity, I lowered it after I tried using 4. Oopsie, I’m getting older and forgot to add that to my post. It wasn’t on purpose.

I don’t think others here care what you call a program or what you change to make it work better for you. I think most people here appreciate someone reporting there findings. Isn’t that what this forum is all about sharing.

I don’t live in Virginia. I love in S.C. However, I also hunt in Orange County, Virginia. And when I use the Deus there, it’s with a completely different program that I happen to do very well with.

Oh btw,... I’m not a sir, sir.

 

[MetalArchSC]

I am glad it proves to be a keeper for you there Smokey. Looking forward to giving it a go in my home state of PA next month. So far works where I am in S.C. I’m keeping it.

 

[vferrari]

Hmm you must not have comprehended completely Gary’s videos. His focus was on tones and tone breaks. That’s what the sonar program was all about....SONAR...The tone that “ stops you in your tracks. He only suggested the frequency he likes to use. It’s not written in stone my friend. As for reactivity, I lowered it after I tried using 4. Oopsie, I’m getting older and forgot to add that to my post. It wasn’t on purpose.

I don’t think others here care what you call a program or what you change to make it work better for you. I think most people here appreciate someone reporting there findings. Isn’t that what this forum is all about sharing.

I don’t live in Virginia. I love in S.C. However, I also hunt in Orange County, Virginia. And when I use the Deus there, it’s with a completely different program that I happen to do very well with.

Oh btw,... I’m not a sir, sir.

Thanks for the comprehension lessons on the Sonar program nevertheless, though the Tone Break is pretty much the same as Calabash's pitch program except using disc. Nothing special, just a two-tone ferrous/non-ferrous tone/pitch which, I guess you didn't comprehend I really had no issue with other than Gary introducing an unnecessary setup complexity because he doesn't like to use disc. My main issue was with the high reactivity setting of 4 which you lowered. I relic hunt in 28 khz too, just as Smokey and Calabash do so if you lowered reactivity, are running at 28 khz, then you are basically running the same thing as the pitch program, except you are using two-tones instead of pitch/discrimination, and Ver 2 Deep filters instead of Ver 3 Fast filters, which have a marginal increase in signal strength on deep targets with the drawback of additional chattiness. Two ways to skin the same cat (apologies to Smokey - lol). And you should definitely stick with what's working for you. No argument there.

But knowing you don't care about all that, I'll apologize for wasting your time MetalArch. Message received loud and clear. I thought by making suggestions of what works well and trying to explain why it works well, that WAS sharing, but yeah when you tell me it aint broke when I suggest the very thing that you did, I can see we are not going to be sending each other Christmas cards. Lol.

Also, apologize on presuming something that I have no right presuming. Thanks for appropriately setting me straight and Smokey can knock some sense into me next time we get together for some relic hunting. I deserve it. Lol.

Happy Hunting anyway and you can count on me to steer clear of providing any more suggestions your way, unwelcome or otherwise. I guess it comes across as butting in with info you couldn’t care less about from your perspective, so I’m sorry about that.

 

[MetalArchSC]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Every now and then there’s bound to be a misunderstanding. No harm no foul as far I’m concerned.