Grinding holes & nutting rock

[Charmin]

Grinding holes & nutting rock

We have found a spot along a little creek where there are many grinding holes in the rocks next to the creek.
A couple of days ago, we pulled some of the dirt out of the grind holes but didn't go all the way to the bottom of the holes----after we left, I kept thinking to myself we should have dug them all the way out to see if there was any artifacts or anything stashed in the bottom of them. These holes are really deep, too, and go down at least 10"+, so it was possible that something could still be in them.
So today, my daughters and I went back to this place and my oldest daughter, Josie, sat down with a digger and pulled all the rest of the dirt out....she said "mom there's something in the bottom of this one hole!". After we emptied more dirt out, you could see a rock was wedged down in it. Josie kept working on it until she got it loosened up enough and pulled it out. It was a nutting rock! It has rounded places on in where the Indian woman busted up the hicker-nuts(hickory nuts) or acorns and pounded them into the grind holes.
After she finished cleaning that one hole out, we started looking around for more grind holes and found 2 more for a total of 4 holes in these rocks! Lots of flint(debitage) all around these rocks, too!
From here we walked on up the creek and my youngest daughter, Jennie, found a pretty pink knife/scraper.....Its broken on one end, but she was so happy to find it.
Here's some pictures and thanks for looking!

 

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[flintmel]

Re: Grinding holes & nutting rock

Wow, intriguing spot! might want to look at those bank cuts and gravel bars. Had to be alot of activity there with those mortars. BTW nice boots!

 

[drsno1]

Re: Grinding holes & nutting rock

Thats cool digging out the dirt and finding somthing. Looks like Eastern Oklahoma to me. Thats where i grew up.

 

[Charmin]

Re: Grinding holes & nutting rock

Wow, intriguing spot! might want to look at those bank cuts and gravel bars. Had to be alot of activity there with those mortars. BTW nice boots!

Yep, it is a very intriguing spot, Flintmel....we have found numerous broken points down on the gravel bars. In the creek banks there is flint washing out and up on top of the banks, there is lots of debitage, too.
My daughter said "thanks" on the compliment for her boots .

Thats cool digging out the dirt and finding somthing. Looks like Eastern Oklahoma to me. Thats where i grew up.

Yep, NE Okla, drsno1. We kept thinking it would be so cool to find the rock they used to crack open the nuts and for it to be stuck down in that hole was amazing!
To think its been there since the Indian woman last used it----kinda gives me goosebumps!

 

[gwhitson]

Re: Grinding holes & nutting rock

i know of a spot with a lot of the holes and found points all around the site but never dug them out this is in se ks

 

[Spook1959]

Re: Grinding holes & nutting rock

While I have been watching this T-Net AIA site for a couple of months, this is my first communication. I have learned a great deal from you experienced people by watching and reading your comments. Much appreciated and thanks to all. This grinding hole intrigues me. Much deeper than I would imagine. I would think more of a bowl shallow shape. How would the women/men collect what has been ground from such a deep hole? Thanks for sharing!

 

[Charmin]

Re: Grinding holes & nutting rock

i know of a spot with a lot of the holes and found points all around the site but never dug them out this is in se ks

Sounds like you're right north of me, then ......You might need to go back and dig those things out, gwhitson, no telling what could be inside!

While I have been watching this T-Net AIA site for a couple of months, this is my first communication. I have learned a great deal from you experienced people by watching and reading your comments. Much appreciated and thanks to all. This grinding hole intrigues me. Much deeper than I would imagine. I would think more of a bowl shallow shape. How would the women/men collect what has been ground from such a deep hole? Thanks for sharing!

Yes, this is much deeper than we expected it to be too, Spook, and not sure why these are so deep . My daughter asked me the same thing. Only one of the holes was shallow. The other three are very deep---I often wonder if the leached the acorns in these deep holes? Maybe someone with more knowledge could tell us.

 

[gwhitson]

Re: Grinding holes & nutting rock

i know of a spot with a lot of the holes and found points all around the site but never dug them out this is in se ks

Sounds like you're right north of me, then ......You might need to go back and dig those things out, gwhitson, no telling what could be inside!

While I have been watching this T-Net AIA site for a couple of months, this is my first communication. I have learned a great deal from you experienced people by watching and reading your comments. Much appreciated and thanks to all. This grinding hole intrigues me. Much deeper than I would imagine. I would think more of a bowl shallow shape. How would the women/men collect what has been ground from such a deep hole? Thanks for sharing!

Yes, this is much deeper than we expected it to be too, Spook, and not sure why these are so deep . My daughter asked me the same thing. Only one of the holes was shallow. The other three are very deep---I often wonder if the leached the acorns in these deep holes? Maybe someone with more knowledge could tell us.

 

[gwhitson]

Re: Grinding holes & nutting rock

yes spot is between coffeyville and independence ks

 

[Charmin]

Re: Grinding holes & nutting rock

yes spot is between coffeyville and independence ks

I've seen a lot of nice artifacts come out of Kansas....my grandpa hunted all along the Okla./Kansas borders and found some pretty good pieces.....one of his favorite places to hunt was along the Big Caney River.

 

[JOHUNT]

Re: Grinding holes & nutting rock

That's very interesting! Thanks for sharing

 

[iowa trout]

Re: Grinding holes & nutting rock

Thanks for shareing very special place ,cool boots too .

 

[Charmin]

Re: Grinding holes & nutting rock

Thanks for shareing very special place ,cool boots too .

That's very interesting! Thanks for sharing

Thanks JOHUNT & Iowa trout! Glad you enjoyed the post .

 

[Tnmountains]

Re: Grinding holes & nutting rock

Love the nut stones. It is deep ? Be curious to also know why the depth. Most nut stones were for hickory nuts. It was the only true food they could keep for long periods. Nuts : )
Great post!

 

[Charmin]

Re: Grinding holes & nutting rock

Love the nut stones. It is deep ? Be curious to also know why the depth. Most nut stones were for hickory nuts. It was the only true food they could keep for long periods. Nuts : )
Great post!

Hey TnMtns ---yes, those holes are very deep and I don't know why? And you'd think, with those holes themselves being that deep and narrow, we'd find something long and skinny to fit down in them....kinda like a roller pestle or something.
I just don't know .
Thanks and glad you enjoyed the post!

Carmon

 

[mamabear]

Re: Grinding holes & nutting rock

great finds! & even better cuz it was with your daughter! love that you are sharing your interest with her.

 

[Charmin]

Re: Grinding holes & nutting rock

great finds! & even better cuz it was with your daughter! love that you are sharing your interest with her.

Thanks mamabear---I love it when both my girls go to the woods with me. and to see the looks on their faces when they discover something really neat. Its a pure joy and a blessing.

 

[1320]

Re: Grinding holes & nutting rock

The rock that you've found at the bottom of the "hominy" hole is most likely a plug. Once the hole gets too deep, it's more economical to "fill" the hole as opposed to the time consuming task of manufacturing a new (longer) pestle. The plug would have been ground to create a good fit into the bottom of the hole, that's likely the workmanship that you're seeing. Most experts in Tennesse/Kentucky theorize that the holes were used for cracking nuts and corn, not grinding. The grinding would have been done on a large, flat rock or on a lap stone with a different style tool. Spook1959 presents a good question about the retreival and after seeing many hominy holes in person, I have to agree. Those holes get very narrow towards the bottom (is that why your daughter retrieved the plug?! LOL)

I'm only paraphrasing what I've read and discussed with others in my region, it's possible that the task and tools are quite different in your region though.

Regardless of what it is, it's a very nice find. A plug and pestle remain on my list of things to find.

 

[Charmin]

Re: Grinding holes & nutting rock

The rock that you've found at the bottom of the "hominy" hole is most likely a plug. Once the hole gets too deep, it's more economical to "fill" the hole as opposed to the time consuming task of manufacturing a new (longer) pestle. The plug would have been ground to create a good fit into the bottom of the hole, that's likely the workmanship that you're seeing. Most experts in Tennesse/Kentucky theorize that the holes were used for cracking nuts and corn, not grinding. The grinding would have been done on a large, flat rock or on a lap stone with a different style tool. Spook1959 presents a good question about the retreival and after seeing many hominy holes in person, I have to agree. Those holes get very narrow towards the bottom (is that why your daughter retrieved the plug?! LOL)

I'm only paraphrasing what I've read and discussed with others in my region, it's possible that the task and tools are quite different in your region though.

Regardless of what it is, it's a very nice find. A plug and pestle remain on my list of things to find.

Well, that is very good information, 1320, and I thank you so much for taking the time to respond .
The plug rock was wedged in the hole really tight and my daughter dug for about thirty minutes trying to loosen it enough to get it out.
So, I guess those dimples on the plug rock were made after it was placed in the hole? And we should still be looking for a pestle then, huh? Cool..... 8)

That's what it's all about. Old digger.

Yep, good stuff, huh, Old digger?!

I love posting stuff on here and learning from other members.....You guys ROCK

 

[1320]

Re: Grinding holes & nutting rock

Now that you've told us that the rock was wedged tight, I'm really leaning towards plug. It would only have been ground enough to fit the hole snuggly. I'm not sure about the dimples on the rock. According to the experts here, the pestle would not come in contact with the plug, at least not by design. The median that was being "worked" would create space between the two but an occaisional whack wouldn't be out of the question. Most of the pestles I've seen have a ridge or lip at the top, the purpose off which is to grip it, otherwise you wouldn't be able to retrieve it once placed into the hole. The lip becomes larger over time by way of friction/abrasion. At some point there's just no way that the pestle can contact the bottom. For that reason alone, many experts agree that the holes/pestles could not have functioned to grid since there is minimal to no contact. I have seen plenty of pestles without the lip though, so who knows?!

To find a pestle....shew, those things are quite elusive. I've seen some documented discoveries of pestles in association with graves, must have been a valuable tool of the time. I hope you find one, I'd like to see if you can match it with one of the holes, wouldn't that be freakin' awesome?!