Grrrr! Bottlecaps!

[Iron Buzz]

How do you all avoid bottlecaps with the Deus? I've owned mine since July and being retired and single, manage to get out for at least a couple of hours almost every day. I've tried the "wiggle", I've tried discrimination, I've tried tweaking iron volume, tried to listen for the "scratch" but nothing seems to work. Yeah, *sometimes* "the wiggle" will work for me, but I end up digging anyway just to be sure.

The only thing that I've read that I really haven't tried is to use frequency-shifting, but I have avoided that because I use ID Norm, and run at 11K most of the time, so turning it off would require learning a whole new set of TIDs, plus re-working the break-points for my tones settings. Also, I occasionally run at 8K so that would be a whole 'nuther set of TIDs to learn.

Do most of you run in Full Tones, and just go by sound and ignore the TID values? And how reliable is frequency shifting when it comes to identifying bottle caps?

 

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[Mahskeeter]

I have really gotten better lately at it. I can tell when I rotate a little while scanning. The time breaks and usually there is a change in tid. I still dig a few. Sometimes they just sound good.

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[Mahskeeter]

I'm mostly running 17k because I like the sound I'm hearing.

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[Calabash Digger]

I run full tones and they fool me some, but when I was up at the old ice cream shop digging I could here something perculiar in a few of the tones, I dig them some now because im relic hunting and I dig most all signals. Have you got a few caps and buried them and see if you can find a little clue in the tone?

 

[Iron Buzz]

I run full tones and they fool me some, but when I was up at the old ice cream shop digging I could here something perculiar in a few of the tones, I dig them some now because im relic hunting and I dig most all signals. Have you got a few caps and buried them and see if you can find a little clue in the tone?

One of my issues is that I really can't set up a test garden in my yard due to a ton of EMI from powerlines. So... no. Not really. I have re-buried some in the field, with a quarter buried nearby and tried to see the difference.

BTW, my experience with metal detecting really only goes back a couple of months more than I've had the Deus. So, I'm not one of you forty-year guys.

 

[Mahskeeter]

I've had my up and down days for sure. The other day the first coin I dug was a wheatie. I knew it would be good. I got 8 that day. My buddy with the etrac didn't do as well.

Today in the rain I got a 63 dime. Woot! I would estimate that I'm doing 15-20 hours a week. Literally any time I can. My last 2 outings have gone really well.

Long story short I'd stay stick with it. Calabash and a few others are awesome here. I love the headphones well. I can't hear it as well with the speaker.

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[Iron Buzz]

One of my issues is that I really can't set up a test garden in my yard due to a ton of EMI from powerlines. So... no. Not really. I have re-buried some in the field, with a quarter buried nearby and tried to see the difference.

BTW, my experience with metal detecting really only goes back a couple of months more than I've had the Deus. So, I'm not one of you forty-year guys.

I found a '64 (silver) dime today. It was lying right on the surface, so tarnished that at first, I thought it was a penny!

I use the headphones 100% of the time. I LOVE the lack of a wire with the Deus. That, and its light weight make it tough to even consider a different detector. I only need to get this bottle cap thing worked out.

 

[pinenut]

How do you all avoid bottlecaps with the Deus?...

While I don't own a Deus, I have trouble with steel caps whenever I run a DD coil. Concentrics fix the bottlecap problem. ^_^
Can you try a concentric on the Deus?

 

[Iron Buzz]

I only have the one coil. Didn't realize that about the double-D coils. You're right... my previous detector was a Garret Act 300 with concentric coils and bottlecaps were never this much of a problem. Don 't get me wrong... I LOVE this machine, but this one exception is driving me nuts.

 

[b3y0nd3r]

Lift the coil as you swing the TID should drop like a stone

 

[toasted]

Dont hunt in the bottlecaps unless youve made enough good finds in there to justify it. If so, then dig it all. My limited experience with bottlecaps, not many where I hunt, is to change to 4khz even if uding id norm. Numbers will be off, usually higher(98-99), on caps most of the time and the tone, in any frequency, is usually slighty scratchy

 

[Calabash Digger]

I have found that what toasted said to be right on about the numbers and scracthy sound ,now I did run into a cap yesterday that just sounded good no matter what.I got a feeling after you log 100 hrs or more on your machine you will start to see a pattern develop on some caps. Henry Ford said experience is the best teacher and I think as you get that with your machine you will dig less of them.I know that my ears can understand the language of the deus and I really dont know how to write it where others can get it. The moral of the story is time it takes time to learn it.what program do you run?

 

[Iron Buzz]

Dont hunt in the bottlecaps unless youve made enough good finds in there to justify it. If so, then dig it all. My limited experience with bottlecaps, not many where I hunt, is to change to 4khz even if uding id norm. Numbers will be off, usually higher(98-99), on caps most of the time and the tone, in any frequency, is usually slighty scratchy

Y'know, I DID do some experimenting with that (leaving ID Norm on but dropping the frequency) and must say that I thought the numbers still seemed not quite the same. Its as if the normalization (which I believe is a math division operation) is not perfect... probably seeing a rounding effect or something. But I wasn't convinced that I wasn't just wanting to believe that. Good to hear a confirmation!

 

[Iron Buzz]

The moral of the story is time it takes time to learn it.what program do you run?

I must admit that I have been using several different programs... Gary's Sifter is one that I like, and sometimes I shift to his Hot program when I suspect a bottlecap... sometimes that Full Tones mode does help. I have entered other custom programs and used them for a while, but those two are what I've mostly settled on recently. On occasion, when I need some peace and quiet from the noise, I'll shift to Basic 1, but I suspect (and air tests indicate) that I'm losing a lot of depth with that one.

[Edit: I estimate that I have almost 300 hours of experience with the Deus. Four months of several hour almost every day. This is, however, in many different places and situations]

 

[Calabash Digger]

bottle caps seem to be a head ache for many, my thing is I use full tones all the time in every program and my theory is this it keeps the audio the same whether im hunting my deep relic program which is a killer coin program or the sifter program or the hot program. My thinking was say I use 5 tones in one program and full tones in another just more for me to learn the nuances of each set of tones. Im sorry cant help more with bottle caps ,Gary over in the UK has a video on bottle caps on youtube.

 

[Iron Buzz]

I totally understand what you say about changing tonal methods and the issues of having to relearn for each one. But I find that it is very easy for me to get audio fatigue when using full tones in cluttered areas and simply zone out after a while.

In any case, I do find some perverse reassurance in knowing that I'm not alone in this botttlecap madness.

 

[USERNAME IS VALID]

I think every time I've dug a bottlecap it comes in loud and clear at 96. I hadn't been out for a couple weeks and forgot about those, but yep, seems they're always at 96.

 

[Deft Tones]

Full Tones with zero discrimination. Pay attention to the come-off tones...the way the sound decays while wiggling off... many times the only clue is at that very moment.

I've found knocking out the ground noise with disc 1 drastically reduces the subtle audio clues. Disc of 2 and you lose almost all ability to differentiate between crown cap and coin. Turn your headphones up to an almost uncomfortable level and pay attention while wiggling off in 0 disc vs any other disc setting. Right as the edge of the coil drops of the target is where you must pay attention.

Still, there are certain crown caps that give troubles no matter the method used to help distinguish them as trash, like Corona, Bud Light, MGD, certain Hard Ciders. Most of my caps are those brands. Screw caps are probably more difficult to discern than the crowns in most instances. They tend to sound like a good target with a touch of that aluminum-ish-hollow-tin-type sound.

I've been watching the meter the past several hunts instead of hunting strictly by tones. There is nothing in the meter that is not in the full tones already...not that I've found anyway.

 

[Iron Buzz]

Oh yeah, those Coronas. I have noticed that. Dug a few today, as a matter of fact.

I'll try your suggestions tomorrow, Deft Tones. If I remember right, the one Full Tone program I run, "Hot", has discrim 1, at least. Sometimes I hear what you are describing... sometimes it is actually kind of a "disappointed" sound... a groan. Moreso when I go very slowly just across the center.

The place that I'm currently hunting is great practice for this. And it has the potential, age-wise, to at least have some silver and Indians, although so far all I've found was a '64 dime and some pre-'82 copper Lincolns. But a LOT of bottle caps both new, and rusty.

 

[Deft Tones]

Yeah, I started with Gary's "hot" program too. Ran it for a 40hr week then opened it up that last little bit and never looked back. I found that I prefer the machine to speak unimpeded and then my brain can discriminate from there.

Good hunting!