Has anyone seen one of these?

bruce · Feb 26, 2008

This is not a find of mine. It came from old timer Tex in on a trade I made.
Good or no good? What do you think?

Thanks on replies!
Bruce

tomclark · Feb 28, 2008

Bruce if you really want to know, send it to a respected authenticator. IMHOP it's fake until proven otherwise. All else is sophistry boom.

bruce · Feb 28, 2008

I am thinking that is probally right D C thanks,
agree with T C to take next step. It is not a bone and
to knap this was a talent. Thanks for input everyone!

Bruce

claydog65 · Mar 23, 2008

Hello,

I am sure you have a genuine fish hook! Hang on to it, as it is rare. I knew an elderly lady in our town that has several thousand points mostly from this area. She had around seven of these hooks and told me"oh yes, these are fish hooks and very rare" Her collection is going to be donated to a museum but I was lucky enough to have known her, she died last year. She had a wild turkey petroglyph type image that was carved into sand stone, pottery, cache of points found in 1960's etc. Best part of her story concerning points, is that she used to be a school teacher and paid the local boys a quarter each point back in the 50's and 60's. She said they had to be perfect or the kids would not get a quarter!!! True story!

bruce · Mar 23, 2008

Hello Claydog65,

Thanks for the information on that and the story
is great. I would like to she her collection. Where did she teach school?
Welcome to this forum, good people here.

Thanks,
Bruce

Cannonman17 · Mar 23, 2008

claydog65 said:
Hello,

I am sure you have a genuine fish hook! Hang on to it, as it is rare. I knew an elderly lady in our town that has several thousand points mostly from this area. She had around seven of these hooks and told me"oh yes, these are fish hooks and very rare" Her collection is going to be donated to a museum but I was lucky enough to have known her, she died last year. She had a wild turkey petroglyph type image that was carved into sand stone, pottery, cache of points found in 1960's etc. Best part of her story concerning points, is that she used to be a school teacher and paid the local boys a quarter each point back in the 50's and 60's. She said they had to be perfect or the kids would not get a quarter!!! True story!

old wives tale. because somebody who has found a lot, even if it was a quarter a piece, doesn't mean they have the first clue what any of it is. In most cases "back in the day" people would simply name an artifact after what THEY interpreted it as being with NO basis in fact... i.e. what it looked like. The reality of it is they ARE rare... but not fish hooks.

mamabear · Mar 23, 2008

I found an obsidian "fish hook" in CA a long time ago. I was told by a local piyute (?) friend that id'd it for me. say what you will. I believe it a fish hook.

luckyinkentucky · Mar 24, 2008

It's not a fake! I've seen one at Angels Mounds near Newburgh, IN. I couldn't tell you what the name was, because I can't remember, but it's not a fish hook. It has something to do with a garment.

bronco · Mar 24, 2008

If its strong enough to 15 lbs or so I think it could be a fish hook. It has a shape like a modern circle hook. I know next to nothing about Indian artifacts but a lot about fishing. If I had to catch fish with that I'd make about 30 of them. It's an ideal shape for a "bush hook" which is just a short line tied to a springy overhanging tree limb on in a creek or river. There is so much give and spring to that set-up that I think it would work on small- medium sized catfish. A lot of times they'll swallow the hook and get "hooked" in the gill rackers in the throat. The current wears the fish out and drowns them or alternately the limb doesn't put a lot of pressure on them and they'll just kind of suspend there and rest. If they're tied right the fish can't fight a whole lot because he can't turn around.

Send me a dozen and I'll put this question to rest for you. (Better yet try it yourself!)

Also, I can't tell the size. Think about what type bait you could use on that hook. If you can't bait it you can't use it. Looks to me like you could get some type of strip bait on it and still have enough gap to hook a fish. I'm sure your ratio of catch to loose would be poor but hey, its a livin' for an Indian. Beats chasing Wooly Mammoths

Cannonman17 · Mar 25, 2008

luckyinkentucky said:
It's not a fake! I've seen one at Angels Mounds near Newburgh, IN. I couldn't tell you what the name was, because I can't remember, but it's not a fish hook. It has something to do with a garment.

I'm not saying it's FAKE!!! Reread post.

Send you a dozen? Holy cow.. takes too long to make one. 15lbs? Maybe and maybe not.

You guys all act as though the Natives fished in the modern day and had to use modern day methods and bag limits as set forth by your local department of fish and game... Not only did they not have to use a hook and line, it would have been the least efficient of all forms of fishing. Net weights are common and these hooks are rare. On top of that there is NO particular correlation between finding these points and water. All you believers need to do is try to tie a string on one of these and try to bait it and then try to catch something... You will quickly see that a net or fish trap will produce a ton more fish really quickly. Otherwise you just shut your eyes, plug your ears and keep repeating to yourself "I believe it's a fish hook, I believe it's a fish hook" Remember... no correlation between these and known fishing sites (just a lot of net weights) and they are quite rare.. but lets ignore that evidence.

Hugh Mongus · Mar 25, 2008

I've seen pictures of such things and even more fanciful knapping in obsidian and flint from Mayan/Aztec temple graves. Things purely symbolic or for ritual use. Ancient peoples sometimes travelled a lot and traded. I would think along that kind of trail, till it can be positively identified. Heck, there are Cumberland flint deposits near St. Louis, Mo, where the stone "looks" like that in terms of color and sheen.

But, then again it could be one of the rare lost ceremonial fish hooks from the beautiful Archaic harvest feast of "The ONE that GOT away", held in late summer by the Sucker Fish Clan down at the fishing hole. Hugh

Cannonman17 · Mar 26, 2008

Hugh Mongus said:
I've seen pictures of such things and even more fanciful knapping in obsidian and flint from Mayan/Aztec temple graves. Things purely symbolic or for ritual use. Ancient peoples sometimes travelled a lot and traded. I would think along that kind of trail, till it can be positively identified. Heck, there are Cumberland flint deposits near St. Louis, Mo, where the stone "looks" like that in terms of color and sheen.

But, then again it could be one of the rare lost ceremonial fish hooks from the beautiful Archaic harvest feast of "The ONE that GOT away", held in late summer by the Sucker Fish Clan down at the fishing hole. Hugh

That's too funny!

I wonder if they weren't maybe effigies of some sort, perhaps representing an eagle claw that is clutched? Just an idea I had while making a pot of coffee this morning...

Hugh Mongus · Mar 27, 2008

I don't know what it is. But it is not an actual fish hook. Some things are endless in form and function: knife, spear point, arrowhead, axe, club, pot, spoon, fish hook, etc. Where is a modern fish hook sharp? At the tip of the barb. Where was a stone age eskimo hook sharp? At the tip of the barb. That is what "hooks" the fish. What if a fish hook was sharp over its length, in and out the curve?
It would cut.
I'll hold out for a ceremonial object, perhaps having to do with shaving underarms, although I admit that is a longshot. Hugh