Help identifying fraternal symbol

[Vickie]

Does anyone know what Fraternal Society this cap would belong to?

 

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[nhbenz]

What do the buttons on the sides look like? And is there any makers info inside? (or any info hidden under the sweat band inside?)

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Nhbenz, the hat was discussed in What-Is-It yesteday afternoon, here: http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/342342-civil-war-cap.html

The one chinstrap button shown in that discussion's photos is a cuff 3-piece US Army Officer button dating from 1854 to 1902. The inside of the hat has the maker's-mark of M.C. Lilley & Co, which dates it to no earlier than 1872.

 

[nhbenz]

Thanks TCG, so much for my hopes that the buttons would help.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Added another photo.

Vickie, I was hoping somebody here would immediately recognize the emblem of the Fraternal-society kepi-hat. Since nobody has spoken up, I'll do the best I can for you.

Back in September 2011, a digger posted an unidentified crossed-swords insignia. The result was one of the lengthiest relic-ID discussions ever in the What-Is-It forum (over 600 replies to his ID-request post). It turned out to be an insignia from the Fraternal-society "Knights of Pythias, Uniformed Ranks." The Uniformed Ranks was the military-style branch of the KoP. In doing research for that discussion, I came across a great many Fraternal-society insignias. I also saw some KoP-UR fraternal kepi-hats very similar to yours. Most date from the 1880s into the 1930s.

The "embroidered" emblem on your kepi-hat shows three weapons, crossed. One is a short-sword, one is a battle-axe, and the other is indistinct, but resembles a lance. According to my KoP-UR research, members of that military-themed organization "were drilled in the use of the sword, axe, and lance." A KoP-UR coat-pin showing those three crossed weapons is here: Knights of Pythias

I'm including the photo below. Look at the pin at lower right. It shows a short-sword (sword's handguard at bottom) crossed between two battle-axes.

Instead of having a leather chinstrap, your kepi-hat has a cord as the chinstrap. That is a very unusual feature. (By the way, the chinstrap is supposed to rest atop a kepi-hat's brim, not be stretched across the hat's top.) The cord on yours is white. KoP-UR kepi-hats have a white cord as the chinstrap. The one shown in the other photo below is darkened with age and handling (and so has the emblem-embroidery, which also used to be white).

Some KoP-UR kepi-hats had a wide band above the brim... like yours does. See photo below.

Also, emblems which are made of embroidered-thread on the front of KoP-UR kepi-hats were white. See another photo, below. Your embroidered emblem is white.

Lastly, your hat's manufacturer, the M.C. Lilley Company, is known to have been a big-time supplier of Knights of Pythias uniforms and related regalia (such as hats.) See the photo of an M.C. Lilley sales-catalog of KoP and KoP-UR items, below.

So, for all the above-mentioned reasons, my best "educated guess" is that your kepi-hat is a Knights Of Pythias - Uniformed Ranks hat, and emblem.

 

[bigfoot1]

KOP is still an active socioty.Many prominant poltitcians are members.I wiki'd them when I found this service badge.cool find!
pat

 

[surf]

Hello CannonballGuy,

I admire your analysis. I, too, looked at KofP regalia closely, but could not find a match.

I'm viewing the axe as with fasces, a la the Merc.

But that is just my impression. I wondered about the central item. Are you viewing that as the short sword? I thought it might be a cap...

One Evil: Cap of Attis

And then I gave up...

History of the Newman Museum

 

[daroofa]

I think it may be fire department related.

 

[DCMatt]

_This a is "fatigue cap" according the the M.C. Lilley catalog of 1891. The cap cord is correct over the top.



As stated in previous posts, Lilley was a perhaps the largest supplier of military and societal uniform accoutrements and accessories. This includes musician uniforms. Post Civil War, many communities had uniformed bands and drum corps.

Your hat is in amazingly good condition. If it were 100 years old, I would expect the red grosgrain to be faded. Whatever the age, it never saw much use.

DCMatt

 

[Bramblefind]

There is a similar symbol on the sash in a photo identified as an Order of Red Men member.

I wouldn't expect them to have hats like that but I really don't know. I didn't have much luck quickly trying to find any more examples...

IORM Improved Order of Red Men

I think the site author swapped his own head with the head in the original photo

 

[surf]

Bravo Bramblefind,

I think you've done it. Brilliant identification, sir.

Do you think it might be a Lady's Auxiliary cap?

Maine Memory Network - Red Men Band Women's Auxiliary, Lubec, ca. 1910

The IORM sure did go in for some odd costumes.

Madera, PA Tribe of the Order of Red Men

Red Men (Natassin Tribe #488) | The Early History of Heilwood

 

[Vickie]

Thank you so much for your help, and for the link. I really appreciate it.

 

[Vickie]

Thank you everyone, especially CannonballGuy and Bramblefind for always helping. This hat belongs to a friend that can't leave his house because his wife is very sick and I'm just trying to help him out, but couldn't without you guys. Thank you very much.