Help w/ identifying very large stone knife artifact found in Texas.

[History Detective]

Hi,
Can anyone please help identify this large, I am guessing stone knife? I found it on private property w/ the owners permission in San Marcos, Texas a while back but have always wondered if it had a classification name also approximate age.
Thanks in advance!

 

[monsterrack]

It is a Marcos look at the notches , they used a punch method on them, notices no flake scares on the one you found and it is normal for them to be 2 to 4in long. That is a nice find, here is a black and white drawingJMO

 

[rockheadhunter421]

As for me given you an expert opinion, I can't really. I'm just an ole country boy from NC. Finding a point this nice would be very rare for me. In my collection, I do not have any that would break a G7 grade. I just enjoying collecting and finding a piece of history. Anyways, it looks like you have a Marcos. I appreciate everyone else who helped too!

 

[intensecrasher]

Just my 2 cents...and I am still learning how to identify types so take this for what it is worth. I agree with rockheadhunter421, it looks like a kirk corner notch. The kirks pictured here have very similar blade edges but the tangs are slightly different. Also in these two pictures one point has a convex base and the other is straight. I think the flaking styles are similar. A drawback is that both of these points were found in MO. That being said, I have 2 obsidian points and a handful of obsidian chips that I found in Iowa. Ancient people traveled, traded items, and material.

 

[rockheadhunter421]

I'm not sure if I am right, but I guess it depends on the culture. The Kirk culture began at the beginning of the Early Archaic period. The point you have pictured Intensecrasher definitely looks like an Early Archaic point. I can tell by the age of the patina/deposits just from that picture. The Marcos culture began at the beginning of the Late Archaic period and goes in the Woodland period (from what my Overstreet says). His point looks to be like an Archaic style that went into the Woodland period to me. That's basically why I'm deciding he has found a Marcos also.

 

[intensecrasher]

That makes sense to me rochheadhunter421...and I just learned something new which was the main reason why I joined treasurenet!

 

[rockheadhunter421]

I was looking at his point at first and thought Kirk b/c of that style but then again it didn't appear that old to me. Then, just typing the point by what the age appears to be, I was thinking it may be Woodland. The Marcos type seems to fit right into that mold for me. Hopefully, I will get better at using my Overstreet guide for typing arrowheads in my own state. Lol.

 

[intensecrasher]

I need to buy the overstreet guide. I have been using several websites. relicshack because they keep a record and pictures of everything they have ever sold and lithicsnet as they have a ton of good information.

 

[quito]

LOL.

I wish there were some Texas collectors here. That one should take about, oh, one whole second for someone who knows their Texas artifacts to type.

 

[History Detective]

You guys ( and gals if applicable) are the experts and I have very very little experience in this field and I appreciate and respect everyone's opinion and help...now with that said...I am just not seeing my point in relicshack or overstreets examples..in these examples I just think 1. the notches are similar in both of theirs but not in mine...and they say the key is in the notches 2.It just doesn't "ring" the right way...maybe I'm just off my rocker...

I was really just interested in this large point because its my favorite and my friends seem to like it cause they think its a spear when they see it..LOL! I found two other points the same day in the same yard one of which I believe is a Triangle Point but now that you guys got me thinking the other point almost looks like a smaller version of the larger point in question....if this maybe helps...to put things in context or reference...see photos...
(This was found at the waters edge in just a few inches of water which their yard backed up to )...

 

[History Detective]

Other point found just a few yards from the other two...

P.S. The San Marcos Texas area has been dated back almost if not to clovis period I believe...

 

[intensecrasher]

I would say that the triangle point is a Tortugas dating from 6000-1000 B.P.

 

[rockheadhunter421]

The small triangle could be a Fresno, Matamoros, or Maud. They are either Late Archaic to Mississippian in age. It looks like I see basal thinning and the edges are beveled so I am kinda leaning more towards the Matamoros. I'm not 100% sure.

 

[rockheadhunter421]

I would say that the triangle point is a Tortugas dating from 6000-1000 B.P.

View attachment 976825

The Overstreet says that the larger Matamoros would fall under the Tortugas type. I believe that's really close Intensecrasher! Thanks!

 

[intensecrasher]

Or....

Earlier Triangular dart points occur during Early Archaic times in South Texas, the earliest of the triangular projectile points in the region (roughly 4,000-5,000 B.C.) The typology, naming, and dating of the style is debated. Classic Early Triangular points are very well made, with well-thinned bases and some parallel flaking (above specimen on right). Yet many of the characterstics of "Early Triangular" points are shared by Tortugas and Matamoros dart points, styles attributed to the Middle and Late Archaic, respectively. As we see it, these styles represent a continuum among the unstemmed point tradition.

 

[rockheadhunter421]

Without looking in the Overstreet, that side-notched one looks Early to Late Archaic to me. Maybe a Big Sandy? It's a beautiful material by the way!

 

[History Detective]

I had never seen a connection between the smaller point w/ "purple" discolorations, and the larger point until just now ( almost 30 years later..LOL!) but now I am just curious..what do you think? Maybe it could help identify the initial point... ?

 

[intensecrasher]

I had never seen a connection between the smaller point w/ "purple" discolorations, and the larger point until just now ( almost 30 years later..LOL!) but now I am just curious..what do you think? Maybe it could help identify the initial point... ?

History Detective, Were all three found at the same place?

 

[History Detective]

Monsterrack, I do see what you mean especially w/ the top illustration of the larger point.

 

[History Detective]

hi intensecrasher, yes, all three were found within a few yards of each other ( San Marcos Texas) on same day believe it or not...they were building a fence and these were in the upturned ground...with the purple one spotted just at the waters edge a few yards from the other two...

 

[Tnmountains]

Hi rockheadhunter,
What do you think about the possibility of it being a Marcos point as someone suggested?

It matches the angle of the notches and the base. I thought Williams till I looked it up then saw the notches on Marco's. Also welcome to T-net. Glad you joined us.