Help with morgans...to good to be true?

[huntsman53]

Sorry that I am late to the debate on the coins! I have been out of town and otherwise occupied due to Ginseng Season having opened on the 1st.

Although the pics of the Obverses of the 1896-P and 1885-O in the second pic do not match the Reverses for the coins, I still believe they are all genuine Morgan Silver Dollars. Why the Obverses have that satin appearance in the pic is probably due to the different lighting situation or setup when taking the pics and one can definitely see that the setups were completely different. I examined the photos of the Obverses and Reverses and see nothing on any of them that would trigger Red Flags to me. If the O.P. definitely checks the coins out by weight, measurements, the magnet test and the Silver ring test and they meet all of the test criteria, then he/she should be okay in purchasing them. I also check out specific details on Morgan Dollars in trying to determine whether they are genuine, fakes or even real good fakes. The fact that the details, lettering and Date all have crisp edges which do not roll into the fields is one sign that they are genuine. The fact that all the inward points of the Stars on Obverse and Reverse point directly towards the center of the coin, no matter where they sit on the coin and that the Stars are perfectly shaped as they should be and not blobs with distorted points, is also another good sign that they are genuine. Also, knowing the styles of Letter and Date digits used and comparing these on the coins that are the subject of this Thread to known genuine Morgan Dollars, is another way to determine authenticity. While I have seen a few counterfeit Morgan Dollars in old 2x2's, I really don't see any problems with the coins. The fact that there is some of the purplish spotting on the rims of the coins which is toning due to some contaminants getting on the coins before they were 2x2'd to me, is another fair indicator that the coins are genuine. This purplish spotting which is actually toning, only occurs on Silver coins and cannot be faked on other metals.


Frank

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A Handbook of Civil War Bullets and Cartridges - Grab it through Amazon!

[Punatic]

Great info thanks! Any feedback on the price of Morgans in this condition?

 

[huntsman53]

While we can determine a grade which one could base a price from, due to the differences in appearance between the Obverses and Reverses of the 1896-P and the 1885-O which has the appearance of being cleaned or whizzed, any value would be suspect. Try taking pics of the Obverses and Reverses of all three coins in the same lighting and post them here. Once done, more realistic grades/conditions and values can be placed on the coins!


Frank

 

[jerseyben]

If the bulk of this deal is for the 3 Morgans pictured for $350, then I would pass. I only see a max of about $75 retail per Morgan pictured and that is only IF they are truly UNC (MS-61/2) and problem free.

 

[Metal Detecting Stuff]

It's Unusual to find Morgans without bag marks, that is an early red flag for potential counterfeits . I was shown some very good fakes both at the local coin shop and coin club meetings, most of these were hard to tell except the lack of bag marks.

Weigh them and do the magnet test before purchasing.

Wayne

Metal Detector Sales and Rentals | Fisher, Garrett, Minelab, Lesche and DetectorPro

 

[Punatic]

You guys are big time! Thanks. The deal included quite a bit of other stuff, I was getting about $25 a Morgan. Guy has recanted on some of the other stuff so these three a bunch of old currency buffs and pennies for about $100 I'm hoping.

So at $75 EACH I would do well.

 

[jerseyben]

You guys are big time! Thanks. The deal included quite a bit of other stuff, I was getting about $25 a Morgan. Guy has recanted on some of the other stuff so these three a bunch of old currency buffs and pennies for about $100 I'm hoping.

So at $75 EACH I would do well.

PLEASE PLEASE please remember that my estimate only applies if the coins are truly UNC and problem free.

I cannot tell an accurate grade based on the pics provided alone so if you do buy them, it will be 100% at your risk!

 

[Koffee]

if you are buying raw Morgans I would weight and mic all my potential purchases

Cheers - Koffee

 

[RBowtie97]

These Morgans are common dates. Wouldn't a counterfeiter focus more on replicating Carson Cities for example. Not saying anything bad about these Morgans. They're really nice.

 

[dejapooh]

You need to check the weight also. It's a bit harder to fake that.

Weight and size are usually very accurate in unc coins. If weight and size are right, I would say you are good to go.

 

[wagbert]

Hello,
I think you have received some very good advice from our fellow TNet members. What do you think now? Are you going to get them?
Good Luck,
Phil

 

[Punatic]

I pursued this hard, but he guy backed out. I am pretty sure they were real. No still learned a lot from the posts here and am very appreciative!

 

[Punatic]

So I reached out to the guy again and I am going to meet him tomorrow to by the remainder of his collection. He said he sold the Morgans already (*******!).

1977 franklin mint Virgin Islands proof set
1977 franklin mint panama 9 coin set
1978 franklin mint panama 9 coin set
2 books of Lincoln/wheaties 1909-1970 (some key dates there but some missing). Possible 1955dd!

Miscellaneous buffaloes and others.

Guys wants $200 which is very good so in going to drive the hour to make the deal!

 

[jerseyben]

So I reached out to the guy again and I am going to meet him tomorrow to by the remainder of his collection. He said he sold the Morgans already (*******!). 1977 franklin mint Virgin Islands proof set 1977 franklin mint panama 9 coin set 1978 franklin mint panama 9 coin set 2 books of Lincoln/wheaties 1909-1970 (some key dates there but some missing). Possible 1955dd! Miscellaneous buffaloes and others. Guys wants $200 which is very good so in going to drive the hour to make the deal!

Please explain what makes this a good deal? Unless there is a guaranteed 1914-D or 1909-S, I would pass.

 

[Punatic]

The panama sets alone are worth 150 each (sold listings on eBay). They contain around 5 oz of silver each. I got the two penny/cent books and the 55dd is not pronounced enough but there was a descent 1909 vdb and a few other descent early wheaties. In addition I got some war nicks and other odds and ends, all in all I should get my money back plus some and keep a few cool coins for the collection.

As a side note, he said he sold he Morgans for $20 a pop

Missed out on those big time

 

[huntsman53]

The panama sets alone are worth 150 each (sold listings on eBay). They contain around 5 oz of silver each. I got the two penny/cent books and the 55dd is not pronounced enough but there was a descent 1909 vdb and a few other descent early wheaties. In addition I got some war nicks and other odds and ends, all in all I should get my money back plus some and keep a few cool coins for the collection.

As a side note, he said he sold he Morgans for $20 a pop

Missed out on those big time

Post some closeup pics of the 1955-P possible Double Die Cent. I believe there are 10 Double Die Obverse Varieties for the 1955-P Lincoln Cent. While DDO-001 is the most sought after and is very valuable, the DDO-002 is much more rare and can fetch decent prices in most grades from VF and above and expecially so for MS Red specimens. I sold an MS-64 Red specimen to an Error/Variety Coin Dealer/Collector some 7 or 8 years ago for $275 and when he had it certified and graded by PCGS, it was the finest specimen known. I found 3 in a plastic roll of MS Red 1955-P Lincoln Cents and all three DDO-002's were MS-64's. I paid $15 for the roll, sold the first DD for $175 on eBay without a Reserve (my fault), the second one to the Dealer/Collector for $275 and the third one for cash and trade equal to $250. I believe that most of the other Cents in the roll were DDO-003's and DDO-004's with the exception of around 5 1955-P PMDD's (Poor Man's Doubled Dies). The DDO-003's and DDO-004's as well as the other Double Die Obverse Varieties are very difficult to Attribute, so I placed 3 Mint State Red PMDD's in the roll to replace the 3 DDO-002's I removed and sold and then I sold the roll for $25.

If your' 1955-P is a DDO-002, I will recognize it right away as long as the pics are great closeups and in-focus.


Frank

 

[Punatic]

Here ya go. Not sure how to take the pennies out of the book so I took the best ones I could get in the book.

Let me know what you think!

 

[huntsman53]

The coin appears to possibly be a DDO-003 due to the thickness on the Date and especially the thickness on the 5's in the Date. Without being able to determine any Die Markers due to the coin being in the Coin Book and covered with plastic, it is really hard to say whether it truly is or not. Since the Double Die Varieties DDO-004 (sorry, forgot to mention this and it has been some time since I last checked the Varieties for this Date) through DDO-009 are all Proof specimens, it can't be one of them. It also doesn't fit the description (attributes) for DDO-010.


Frank

 

[baddbluff]

Here ya go. Not sure how to take the pennies out of the book so I took the best ones I could get in the book. Let me know what you think!

This isn't a dbl die - it looks like the "poor mans dbl die" that people try to sell on eBay. It's worth about 5 cents.

 

[Punatic]

That's the conclusion I had come to as well. Thanks for the info guys