Help with staking mining claim

[ELKAHOLIC]

I have a spot I would like to stake a mining claim on. I'm really confused on how you can set the boundaries of the claim. I know the township and section of the area but how do I find the quarter sections? Does the claim have to follow the lines of the quarter sections? My nephew and I were want to claim together so we can claim 40 acres. I live in Montana if it matters.

Any help would be great as I'm really stressing over how you figure your claim boundaries and describe them on paper.

Thanks

 

[ELKAHOLIC]

Everything's been marked and paperwork was filed with the countys recorder office. I have to mail the papers to BLM as their state office is about 5 hours from me. Is copies of the certificate of location along with map and check the only things you send to BLM?

Has anyone ever had BLM void their claim for any reason when they first filed? I checked with my local BLM office to make sure the area was open to mineral entry and the master title platt said it was but i'm worried they might find some other reason to void it. Does BLM send you papers too after they do their thing?

One more question,after I filed with the county recorder office the claim is mine right? Can someone come in there with location papers dated before my discovery date and take the claim if BLM hasn't processed my papers yet?

Really sorry if all these questions are dumb.


Thanks for all the help

 

[ELKAHOLIC]

"Also, after I stake the claim and file the paperwork can I pan or sluice on the claim or do I have to wait until I get the official papers from BLM?"
Are you putting the cart before the horse? You should have done your panning prior to filing a claim in order to satisfy the discovery. I hope you're not filing on a dead piece of ground (no gold). Check open / closed claims in the area you're interested in using LR2000 or Land Matters. There may be a reason there are no claims there. You may be doing a whole lot of work needlessly.

Yes there is gold there and the ground is open. I know it sounds like a dumb question but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a law that said you could prospect before filing a claim but couldn't prospect after filing a claim until all paper work was in the system.

 

[winners58]

send the correct fees, make copy's, send the original ones signed with ink, send certified mail.
https://www.blm.gov/or/programs/minerals/files/mining-claim-fee-req.pdf
if filed before sept. 1st include a small miners waver for the upcoming year.
https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/3830-002_0.pdf (for the claim No.# just write "first year")
if its on a powersite withdrawal they have you wait 60 days before starting mining, you can still sample.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Everything's been marked and paperwork was filed with the countys recorder office. I have to mail the papers to BLM as their state office is about 5 hours from me. Is copies of the certificate of location along with map and check the only things you send to BLM?

Has anyone ever had BLM void their claim for any reason when they first filed? I checked with my local BLM office to make sure the area was open to mineral entry and the master title platt said it was but i'm worried they might find some other reason to void it. Does BLM send you papers too after they do their thing?

One more question,after I filed with the county recorder office the claim is mine right? Can someone come in there with location papers dated before my discovery date and take the claim if BLM hasn't processed my papers yet?

Really sorry if all these questions are dumb.


Thanks for all the help

Your claim is made valid by:

• Locating a valuable mineral deposit on public lands open to location.
• Describing, staking and monumenting your discovery as required by State law.

If you have done that you have established your possessory right to the minerals within your described location. You may prospect and mine your minerals as long as you maintain the claim.

Part of your duty of maintenance is to make a public record of your location at the County Recorders office and filing an informational copy of your claim with the BLM State office within 60 days of monumenting (in Montana). Additional maintenance duties include annual labor, public record making and informational filing with the BLM State office.

You had a mining claim when you put up your monument. No need to wait for the County Recorder or the BLM. Your claim is valid if you followed the process and did your due diligence. The BLM can not arbitrarily cancel or void your claim if it was properly located. No waiting period is required unless you located in a powersite withdrawal, as winners58 so accurately pointed out.

Anybody can file any papers they want. The first to stake is the senior locator. Paperwork, no matter what date is on the papers, does not establish your location date - staking does.

Relax - enjoy working to define and prove your mineral deposit.

Heavy Pans

 

[Cassews]

I know some of you all don't want to hear it; but have ya tried asking BLM all these Questions ? The Geologist we have over here is just awesome and will help with claims etc.. Also are you a member of a club ? Our claims agent is the best at helping people and if he doesn't know he asks either past Claims Agents or the BLM Geologist we have out here. But we are all in Colorado and I dont know the laws for Montana so that is why I was asking you about all of the above.
Make sure you get with the local Geologist of BLM to find out what part of the 1872 law he works in and go strictly by the book on. I know the 1872 law isnt really for small miners like us, but it helps when they come down on ya for something one has no control over (ie: claim jumpers, poachers).

In our experience if BLM pulls a claim from you DON"T expect to get your money back. Its in their bank and they very very seldom refund any monies. Nope we never got our monies back on a claim BLM pulled as they made a mistake and it was supposed to be a public claim.

Also, in our experience with BLM we drive it over to Denver (4.5 hours one way), but then you have the STAMPED paperwork from them with the time and date on it stating you have filed and its your claim. The BLM headquarters has a tendency to lose paperwork and if it hadn't of been for our paperwork we would of lost the claims. Expect no apology either as it was their fault, not ours ... Government ya know ...

But I/we still get along good with BLM even with all the hiccups that we have had in the past. Many know my husband and I; look forward to the visit when we come in making an half hour's worth of work turn into a 2 hour Good to see ya (of course we also bring in our "finds"-whether its rock hounding or gold panning/metal detecting). So yes we have a rapport with them and the BLM office here in our neck of the woods.

 

[ELKAHOLIC]

send the correct fees, make copy's, send the original ones signed with ink, send certified mail.
https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/3830-002_0.pdf
if filed before sept. 1st include a small miners waver for the upcoming year.
https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/3830-002_0.pdf (for the claim No.# just write "first year")
if its on a powersite withdrawal they have you wait 60 days before starting mining, you can still sample.

One of the BLM things I read said that if it's a new claim you didn't need to deal with wavers or assessment forms for the first year since it is a new claim. Also I already mailed the papers to BLM and I sent a copy of the certificate of location not the original. The same BLM info I read said to send a copy so I figured I was suppose to keep the original. Did I mess the whole thing up?

Here's where I read about the waiver. https://www.blm.gov/or/programs/minerals/files/mining-claim-fee-req.pdf

 

[Cassews]

Everything's been marked and paperwork was filed with the countys recorder office. I have to mail the papers to BLM as their state office is about 5 hours from me. Is copies of the certificate of location along with map and check the only things you send to BLM?

Has anyone ever had BLM void their claim for any reason when they first filed? I checked with my local BLM office to make sure the area was open to mineral entry and the master title platt said it was but i'm worried they might find some other reason to void it. Does BLM send you papers too after they do their thing?

One more question,after I filed with the county recorder office the claim is mine right? Can someone come in there with location papers dated before my discovery date and take the claim if BLM hasn't processed my papers yet?

Really sorry if all these questions are dumb.


Thanks for all the help

No question is ever dumb and that is the sign of a good person wanting to help another one (at least in my book it is !!)

 

[ELKAHOLIC]

I know some of you all don't want to hear it; but have ya tried asking BLM all these Questions ? The Geologist we have over here is just awesome and will help with claims etc.. Also are you a member of a club ? Our claims agent is the best at helping people and if he doesn't know he asks either past Claims Agents or the BLM Geologist we have out here. But we are all in Colorado and I dont know the laws for Montana so that is why I was asking you about all of the above.
Make sure you get with the local Geologist of BLM to find out what part of the 1872 law he works in and go strictly by the book on. I know the 1872 law isnt really for small miners like us, but it helps when they come down on ya for something one has no control over (ie: claim jumpers, poachers).

In our experience if BLM pulls a claim from you DON"T expect to get your money back. Its in their bank and they very very seldom refund any monies. Nope we never got our monies back on a claim BLM pulled as they made a mistake and it was supposed to be a public claim.

Also, in our experience with BLM we drive it over to Denver (4.5 hours one way), but then you have the STAMPED paperwork from them with the time and date on it stating you have filed and its your claim. The BLM headquarters has a tendency to lose paperwork and if it hadn't of been for our paperwork we would of lost the claims. Expect no apology either as it was their fault, not ours ... Government ya know ...

But I/we still get along good with BLM even with all the hiccups that we have had in the past. Many know my husband and I; look forward to the visit when we come in making an half hour's worth of work turn into a 2 hour Good to see ya (of course we also bring in our "finds"-whether its rock hounding or gold panning/metal detecting). So yes we have a rapport with them and the BLM office here in our neck of the woods.

I went to my local BLM office to talk to someone about claims and they had no idea. The guy they got to help me didn't know anything and when he tried looking stuff up on his computer most of his files wouldn't open. I sat there for 30 minutes and left with no new info on anything I asked. Oh wait, of course they were able to tell how much money I needed to send in on the initial filing.

 

[Clay Diggins]

One of the BLM things I read said that if it's a new claim you didn't need to deal with wavers or assessment forms for the first year since it is a new claim.

Your first year ends on August 31, 2017. You need to file a small miners waiver (free) before that date if you want to avoid the annual maintenance fee. Otherwise you will need to pay your annual fees in full by that date.

Also I already mailed the papers to BLM and I sent a copy of the certificate of location not the original. The same BLM info I read said to send a copy so I figured I was suppose to keep the original. Did I mess the whole thing up?

You did it just right.

Heavy Pans

 

[Clay Diggins]

I know some of you all don't want to hear it; but have ya tried asking BLM all these Questions ?

Expect no apology either as it was their fault, not ours ... Government ya know ...

Found on all BLM information:

NO WARRANTY IS MADE BY BLM FOR USE OF THE DATA FOR PURPOSES NOT INTENDED BY BLM

The BLM is not in charge of mining claims, they can't legally determine whether a claim or location filing is valid, they don't keep verified records and they aren't responsible if they give you incorrect information.

Hundreds of people lose their claims because they follow BLM instructions about their claims. I would strongly advise studying the legal requirements for locating and maintaining a mining claim and following those laws no matter what the BLM tells you. The government is not here to help you.

Here's an interesting case from Colorado. This might even be your "Geologist" connection.

Heavy Pans

 

[oneguy]

Been watching this very closely and have learned a lot.....so thanks to all! My situation is a little different in that the area I'm interested in is pretty well claimed up and I can't seem to find out WHERE any unclaimed ground is? Some of the claims aren't marked well at all and vice-versa? The county couldn't help me, Landmatters hasn't helped much, etc. It seems every time I "think" I'm on open ground I find out I've been claim jumping. I do have a very experienced mentor that sold his last claim (he's owned and mined several previously up here) that I was trying to buy but wouldn't pay full price (I'm cheap...lol) so that's gone. I'm hoping I can offer up something to him and hopefully his knowledge of claims and the area maybe he can help me locate some open ground in the area? Unfortunately my area only has 2 creeks/rivers with semi-decent color, etc.
So my problem is where are the claims and open areas? If and when I do actually find some ground I'll definitely refer back to this thread for claim filing info.....thanks again.

Good luck to the OP on your new claim.....!!!!!

 

[Bejay]

Claims Advantage with Land matters appears to be something you should look into.

Bejay

 

[bobw53]

Been watching this very closely and have learned a lot.....so thanks to all! My situation is a little different in that the area I'm interested in is pretty well claimed up and I can't seem to find out WHERE any unclaimed ground is? Some of the claims aren't marked well at all and vice-versa? The county couldn't help me,!

What do you mean by "the county couldn't help me?" Are you expecting them to hand you a map of active claims, because that isn't happening...

The county clerks office records documents and supplies them to people that want to see them.. THAT IS ALL THEY DO..

I can literally file an affidavit that says "I had a ham sandwich for lunch".. They will take my $10 and it will be in the official record FOREVER
that on July 27th 2017, I had a ham sandwich for lunch..

There could be 20 people in line, all filing on the EXACT SAME CLAIM, and the nice ladies at the clerks office will take each persons $10 and
file 20 location notices on the exact same claim, one right after the other... No questions asked.

BLM/landmatters is basically "reference".. There is UNFORTUNATELY nothing official there. The county is where it all begins and ends, and you
have to do the leg work.. The nice ladies in the county I play in are really friendly and will show you how to look everything up.. You CAN NOT
skip this step..

You also need some boots on the ground since you've got time to file with the county..

Its NOT a simple system.. My experience from hanging around here for a few years, and from my own newb stubbornness.. NOBODY is
going to hand you a nice little map that shows you all the open area you can claim.. It is YOUR responsibility to do all the leg work, and
you can't skip steps.. Say Landmatters says there is a load claim in the 1/4 section you are interested in.. You have to drag your butt
down to the clerks office and pull the paperwork to find out where exactly in that 1/4 section the claim is located... There are no short cuts.

The thing I had the most difficulty with at first was that there were NO shortcuts... You DO have to go to the courthouse(clerks office)..
They don't have pretty maps down there... You DO have to pull all the paperwork and then piece it all together...

Once you accept the fact that its not the easiest thing in the world and that there are no short cuts... It gets a lot easier.

 

[oneguy]

What do you mean by "the county couldn't help me?" Are you expecting them to hand you a map of active claims, because that isn't happening...

The county clerks office records documents and supplies them to people that want to see them.. THAT IS ALL THEY DO..

I can literally file an affidavit that says "I had a ham sandwich for lunch".. They will take my $10 and it will be in the official record FOREVER
that on July 27th 2017, I had a ham sandwich for lunch..

There could be 20 people in line, all filing on the EXACT SAME CLAIM, and the nice ladies at the clerks office will take each persons $10 and
file 20 location notices on the exact same claim, one right after the other... No questions asked.

BLM/landmatters is basically "reference".. There is UNFORTUNATELY nothing official there. The county is where it all begins and ends, and you
have to do the leg work.. The nice ladies in the county I play in are really friendly and will show you how to look everything up.. You CAN NOT
skip this step..

You also need some boots on the ground since you've got time to file with the county..

Its NOT a simple system.. My experience from hanging around here for a few years, and from my own newb stubbornness.. NOBODY is
going to hand you a nice little map that shows you all the open area you can claim.. It is YOUR responsibility to do all the leg work, and
you can't skip steps.. Say Landmatters says there is a load claim in the 1/4 section you are interested in.. You have to drag your butt
down to the clerks office and pull the paperwork to find out where exactly in that 1/4 section the claim is located... There are no short cuts.

The thing I had the most difficulty with at first was that there were NO shortcuts... You DO have to go to the courthouse(clerks office)..
They don't have pretty maps down there... You DO have to pull all the paperwork and then piece it all together...

Once you accept the fact that its not the easiest thing in the world and that there are no short cuts... It gets a lot easier.

WHY the snarky attitude? YES.....I'm a newb, and YES I'm trying to learn, and YES I've done some legwork. So I'm learning and YES I did actually think I could get some sort of map that shows established active claims. I did go to the platroom at the courthouse and inquired and they politely told me they could furnish the claim owners name IF I had the name of the claim and vice versa. I do look for markers and boudries out in the brush. OK....you've been through it and I haven't so it's a learning deal for me. I appreciate all the info I get here, including yours, but the snarky crap isn't needed......

 

[Rail Dawg]

WHY the snarky attitude? YES.....I'm a newb, and YES I'm trying to learn, and YES I've done some legwork. So I'm learning and YES I did actually think I could get some sort of map that shows established active claims. I did go to the platroom at the courthouse and inquired and they politely told me they could furnish the claim owners name IF I had the name of the claim and vice versa. I do look for markers and boudries out in the brush. OK....you've been through it and I haven't so it's a learning deal for me. I appreciate all the info I get here, including yours, but the snarky crap isn't needed......

I'm with you.

We have 33 claims in choice areas of Rye Patch NV.

The learning curve is steep. I had a good mentor and even after a year of claiming (and selling) I'm still learning and re-learning.

I recommend keeping very good, detailed notes.

You'll be surprised what you'll forget.

Don't let anyone diss on the questions you're asking.

I have asked a hundred questions of my mentor, the BLM, the county and this very good forum.

Keep plugging away. You'll get your claim.

 

[KevinInColorado]

Oneguy, I think you should reread the post that bothered you. He's not being snarky, just trying to make sure you understand how things work and that there's no shortcut. Reading words without the voice tone to go with them is tricky. It's easy to read a negative message which isn't really there so on these forums we have to give each other the benefit of the doubt. Please try. We really are here to point you right and help you along. That includes Bobw53 I'm quite sure. Heck, look at how much time he took writing his post to point you in the right direction!

 

[winners58]

research at the county recorders for records is not always easy, the original location of a claim is one thing, labor, transfers
can be harder, here is a recorders search page to practice on, Douglas County Oregon e-Government - Clerks Office (basic search not the full documents)
search by document type (mine affidavit, location notice, NOI to hold and claim deed)or start with TRS
Reading maps is number one on the list for looking for open claims, township, range, section (TRS) sections are divided into aliquot parts
Then you have to go on the LR2000 to search that section, Master Title Plats will tell you what is public domain,
or you can use Land Matters to search a whole area and much much more...

 

[Bejay]

Just some food for thought. I have had my same "major placer claim" (has my staging area and is well defined and posted) for about 30 years. I had always thought that a mile of tributary upstream creek was unclaimed because I knew of no postings (signage) and had never seen anyone working the section of creek. And I occupy my claims vigorously. I had always thought of going up and testing the waters but had more than enough to do with what I had. There had never been anything to make one think the area was not open. But evidently the guy passed away because all of a sudden a friend doing some research of my area showed me on the LR2000 that the creek had been claimed and was now open. It gave me pause because the guy had had it claimed for something like 40 years. It got claimed by someone else. One must do research....as boots on the ground is not enough. I have always done the old fashioned County Land Office research of files....back in my day (40 some years ago). Much more information is available today.....and each State has its own criteria for staking and marking a claim.

Bejay

 

[oneguy]

I'd like to apologize to Bobw53 and the forum for my reply to Bobw53......I took his reply at first as calling me lazy and ignorant. I am ignorant about mining claims and his response helps....thanks and sorry!

 

[bobw53]

I'd like to apologize to Bobw53 and the forum for my reply to Bobw53......I took his reply at first as calling me lazy and ignorant. I am ignorant about mining claims and his response helps....thanks and sorry!

When I was green, I WANTED it to be easy.. There HAD to be a way to do this that was easy... And there isn't.. I was just pointing that out.. over and over again..

If you are lucky, the ladies down at your clerk's office are as nice as the ones here.. My first trip down (its actually north) to the clerks office was a
"test run".. I told them what I wanted to look up and that I had no idea how to do it.. So one of the nice ladies sat me down at the terminal, and showed
me how to use their "program" that had to be from 1984.. Anything older than that, and I had to dig through the PILES and PILES of books.. Everything is
cataloged in the computer, but if you want the documents, you have to dig for the older stuff...

That first trip was an eye opening experience... I didn't know what I was looking for, I didn't know what to expect, I don't think I had ever seen a claim filing
before... I got some documents printed out and headed home to do some more research...

The second and subsequent trips to the clerks office, I was better prepared.. I had a list... And a notepad.. Copies are $1 each, they won't let you photograph
the documents, but I did find out that they will e-mail them for free... I also figured out that I could search by township and range, which makes things easier, and
I also figured out that its really easy to jot down the exact locations of placer claims on a notepad... Not so easy with the load claims though.

From what I've gathered, every county clerks office is different, they all have different systems and computer programs, some have NOTHING online, some have
it ALL online... Where I go, you can get a summary online, but you can't search by Township and Range like you can down at the clerks office. Also the county
I deal with only has 11,000 residents, so it doesn't take too long to go back 60-90-120 days for new filings and see whats new... The BLM out here also seems to
be rocket fast. I can put my stuff in the mail, and its up on the LR2000 within hours of them receiving it.

The BLM folks are pretty nice here also... The local office, they haven't a clue about mineral rights claims.. I found that out the hard way.. The couple of people
up in Santa Fe that actually deal with this stuff are very nice, and as helpful as they can be.. I've heard that isn't the case in every state.

Once you are comfortable with the "system", its not bad... You don't have to like it, its really sort of stupid, but its what we have to work with..

One layer on landmatters that is REALLY handy, and can help keep you from chasing something that you can never have, is the "land manager" level..
Yellow is BLM (you can slap a claim down there), I think green is forest service (never had to deal with it) and the purple is state... If it doesn't have
a color, its private. Then you can dig into the plat maps... If its state, did the federal government grant the mineral rights when they gave it
to the state?? You can get all the plat map stuff online, and they aren't like a regular map.... Its a MAP!! I know how to read a MAP!!, yeah well,
I had to download the cheat sheet, its not a normal map... But they can lead you to all kinds of neat and interesting and historical stuff. The will
also lead you down the road of figuring out who owns the mineral rights...

I only know enough to keep myself out of trouble.. And it was SOOO confusing at first.. Its a steep steep learning curve, but once you "get it", its
really not that bad, its still a bit confusing and convoluted, but at least you will know which direction to head in.

Good luck, you'll find some good ground that's open.