ghost surf
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I found this under a tree in our yard a few years back.
It is about the size of a nickle.
It is about the size of a nickle.
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Here is some sort of Indian tool.
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deepsix47
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ghost surf said:If I was a cop, I wouldn't do anything illegal! Anyway...It is starting the snow stuff and when it goes away it will be the beginning for new hunts and there will be new finds...I can't wait.
LOL....the snow is flying around up north and we're walking around in shorts and t-shirts with the AC's on. Life can be tough.
Winter storms will be through however and I'm looking forward to them. They tear up the treasure beaches and the TH'ing gets good. Another bonus of winter is getting out and artifact hunting with the bugs taking a siesta (most of them anyway....lol). They can get nasty in the summer. Have a good one.
Deepsix
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Atlantis0077
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Howdo,
There's a comedian I listen to who makes a statement I really like that fits the badinage going on here......"If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, expect an answer you don't want to hear."
There is no point in being rude to people who are just asking questions, and I don't think that happens often in this forum. What I do see happening is people taking opinions they asked for as personal attack when those opinions differ from their own.
Take for example a meteorite. I wouldn't know one from a horse apple. If I find a rock I am unsure about, I could post it to the forum for meteorites.....If I get 5 people who know much more about such things than I tell me its a rock, I am content to except that and not get mad they told me it wasn't what I thought. Same here.....there are some very knowledgable people here....some trained archaeologist that have been in the field for years. I learn something new here nearly every day and welcome the chance for others to look at what I have found and offer an educated opinion on it. Do I have to accept all I hear as gospel? Nah, but no point in being offended if someone says I have a rock. If 4 or 5 people in here say its a rock, chances are that is just what it is.
I recently had an encounter with a fellow where I hunt. He came bouncing up telling me about all the points he had found. Had a double hand full of what he described as bird points.....I eagerly looked on as he pulled from his pocket about 50 of the nicest gar scales you could expect to see. I could have bluntly told him what he had, but feeling generous and not in the mood to embarrass or crush his hopes I let him proceed on in blissful ignorance....I know, I failed as an educator, so somewhere someone has a board on the wall of their house with a bunch of gar scales they think are arrowheads glued to it.
That guy, however, wasn't asking me my professional opinion on his stuff, so I didn't feel obligated to drown him in knowledge. But here people come to learn. They ask questions and we should be willing to tell them the truth, warts and all. If answering a question, be tactful with what you say and how you say it. Conversely, if you ask questions, be prepared to hear the occasional, its just a rock, without being offended or feeling you are being personally attacked. This is a friendly forum and it needs to stay that way.
My two cents,
Atlantis
There's a comedian I listen to who makes a statement I really like that fits the badinage going on here......"If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, expect an answer you don't want to hear."
There is no point in being rude to people who are just asking questions, and I don't think that happens often in this forum. What I do see happening is people taking opinions they asked for as personal attack when those opinions differ from their own.
Take for example a meteorite. I wouldn't know one from a horse apple. If I find a rock I am unsure about, I could post it to the forum for meteorites.....If I get 5 people who know much more about such things than I tell me its a rock, I am content to except that and not get mad they told me it wasn't what I thought. Same here.....there are some very knowledgable people here....some trained archaeologist that have been in the field for years. I learn something new here nearly every day and welcome the chance for others to look at what I have found and offer an educated opinion on it. Do I have to accept all I hear as gospel? Nah, but no point in being offended if someone says I have a rock. If 4 or 5 people in here say its a rock, chances are that is just what it is.
I recently had an encounter with a fellow where I hunt. He came bouncing up telling me about all the points he had found. Had a double hand full of what he described as bird points.....I eagerly looked on as he pulled from his pocket about 50 of the nicest gar scales you could expect to see. I could have bluntly told him what he had, but feeling generous and not in the mood to embarrass or crush his hopes I let him proceed on in blissful ignorance....I know, I failed as an educator, so somewhere someone has a board on the wall of their house with a bunch of gar scales they think are arrowheads glued to it.
That guy, however, wasn't asking me my professional opinion on his stuff, so I didn't feel obligated to drown him in knowledge. But here people come to learn. They ask questions and we should be willing to tell them the truth, warts and all. If answering a question, be tactful with what you say and how you say it. Conversely, if you ask questions, be prepared to hear the occasional, its just a rock, without being offended or feeling you are being personally attacked. This is a friendly forum and it needs to stay that way.
My two cents,
Atlantis
deepsix47
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Hi Atlantis:
Actually....lol. Those Gar scales can and have been used as points. I was told by someone many years ago that many of the groups living in the land of the Alligator Gar had used the scales as bird points. I had to see for myself so I went through the whole process of gigging a gar, removing and drying the scales etc. Several quail and a couple of rabbits went down using them.
What many seem to forget is that very little, if anything, went to waste by those early peoples. Even the bones were used for everything from jewelry to sewing needles and awls.
Although not a "chipped projectile point", they were at least sometimes used as such.
Deepsix
Actually....lol. Those Gar scales can and have been used as points. I was told by someone many years ago that many of the groups living in the land of the Alligator Gar had used the scales as bird points. I had to see for myself so I went through the whole process of gigging a gar, removing and drying the scales etc. Several quail and a couple of rabbits went down using them.
What many seem to forget is that very little, if anything, went to waste by those early peoples. Even the bones were used for everything from jewelry to sewing needles and awls.
Although not a "chipped projectile point", they were at least sometimes used as such.
Deepsix
A
Atlantis0077
Guest
Hey Deepsix,
Yep they did use them, and they are listed in the book, but remember we were in the bottom of a lakebed. His were bright and shiney....still smoking...lol
Atlantis.
Yep they did use them, and they are listed in the book, but remember we were in the bottom of a lakebed. His were bright and shiney....still smoking...lol
Atlantis.
Oroblanco
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Re: Here is some sort of Indian tool. (Warning long winded post! 
)
Hello friends,
I don't wish to make a pronouncement on whether this find is just natural or man-altered, really it is tough to determine it from the photos (can't see any worked edges, of course it could be "ground" and not flaked, which would require much greater magnification) it seems like one for the "maybe" pile. (I have a couple of 5-gallon buckets full of "maybes" and left more behind in PA)
Sometimes we can be a bit blunt in our appraisals, but I don't think any intent is to be insulting; rather just an opinion being expressed and if it seems "blunt" it is probably intended to save time for the finder, to allow for MORE time out searching in the field instead of RE-searching on any particular find. If the item is a thumbnail scraper, then it belongs in your collection, if it seems questionable to you Ghost Surf, then probably it belongs in your "maybe" bucket. I wouldn't throw it away (I try not to do that, some of the "maybes" are pretty interesting) just hang on to it, it costs nothing to keep it after all. If however Ghost, you are convinced that it is NOT a tool (like a scraper) then by all means discard it - however I get the impression from your posts that you are very un-decided on this one, so if it were my find I would file it in the "maybes".
Deepsix47 you surprise me! Here I was thinking you were just a bit on the 'blunt' side with your posts on this find, and you go and make that nice offer - heck you are going to lose your reputation as a mean one! Now what do I have to do to get you frustrated enough to invite ME? (heh heh!) I have always wanted a cannon, even if just for a decoration! (No idea how the heck I would ever raise one from the bottom much less get it home though.
) A very nice post +offer you made, I hope that Ghost Surf is able to take you up on it - boy what I would give to hunt some of the spots you mentioned!
Atlantis gave an example of how it can be, to be put on the spot with a newbie who has found something they are convinced is something of importance, no one wants to be the one to have to tell them it really isn't anything. It can be difficult to be "diplomatic" when we really don't want to discourage the person, rather we would like to encourage them to keep looking and it can be tough to find a "soft" way to say it.
I think many of us try to encourage others to keep on huntin' and searchin' for the stuff IS out there to be found, it is tough for a new person starting out to hear that some finds are not what they thought they were and we can all remember how that felt. I can remember finding more than a dozen "arrow points" under a rock ledge on a mountain as a boy, and felt ten-feet-tall as I hiked home with them, thinking how my parents would be SO impressed with them - only to have my bubble burst when my father told me they were just broken shards of PA bluestone, that happened to break into the approximate size of arrow points. He was nice about it, and showed me that you have to look at the edges especially for signs of chipping or scraping, and later introduced me to the postmaster (his boss) who was a very advanced amateur who showed me a lot on how and where to look and dig and how to tell a tool or point from a waste flake or a natural. Sometimes it is really difficult to tell a natural from a man-worked piece, the hillside here is littered with that kind - many flakes that have SOME edge working done but were discarded for some reason.
There is no shame in being an amateur or newbie at any hobby or interest, (HOPE not!) there is a "learning curve" in this subject just like many others; also even the experts can be wrong and we ALL can continue to learn more, in fact I think we all try to learn more in our fields of interest all the time.
Anyway I hope all the ruffed feathers can be smoothed down, for we ALL have a common interest here in this category, a great desire to know "what went before" and these little pieces of history we can hold in our hands have a real meaning for many of us. To the original owners, they were everyday tools and weapons, but to us, some are virtually works of art. I am no expert in this field, just another amateur with lots of interest so my appraisal of what this particular find may or may not be carries no great weight. As I said, if it were mine and I was unsure of it, it would go in the "maybe" buckets.
Man, meteorites - there is yet another field which takes some education to become proficient in! I own two (traded a small lot of land for one, purchased the other) but over the years threw away at least a half dozen that I just assumed were iron-rich, scorched looking hot rocks. If a guy were to keep every hot rock to have tested for being a meteorite, he would soon have a good pile of iron-rich rocks. There are a few places that will certify them for free or a fee, and if I should find a hot rock that has what appears to be a fusion crust I would go to the trouble of sending it in. (And NO I am no expert in meteorites either!)
Sorry for the long-winded post, just wanted to put in my two gerahs' worth.
Oroblanco
)Hello friends,
I don't wish to make a pronouncement on whether this find is just natural or man-altered, really it is tough to determine it from the photos (can't see any worked edges, of course it could be "ground" and not flaked, which would require much greater magnification) it seems like one for the "maybe" pile. (I have a couple of 5-gallon buckets full of "maybes" and left more behind in PA)
Sometimes we can be a bit blunt in our appraisals, but I don't think any intent is to be insulting; rather just an opinion being expressed and if it seems "blunt" it is probably intended to save time for the finder, to allow for MORE time out searching in the field instead of RE-searching on any particular find. If the item is a thumbnail scraper, then it belongs in your collection, if it seems questionable to you Ghost Surf, then probably it belongs in your "maybe" bucket. I wouldn't throw it away (I try not to do that, some of the "maybes" are pretty interesting) just hang on to it, it costs nothing to keep it after all. If however Ghost, you are convinced that it is NOT a tool (like a scraper) then by all means discard it - however I get the impression from your posts that you are very un-decided on this one, so if it were my find I would file it in the "maybes".
Deepsix47 you surprise me! Here I was thinking you were just a bit on the 'blunt' side with your posts on this find, and you go and make that nice offer - heck you are going to lose your reputation as a mean one! Now what do I have to do to get you frustrated enough to invite ME? (heh heh!) I have always wanted a cannon, even if just for a decoration! (No idea how the heck I would ever raise one from the bottom much less get it home though.
) A very nice post +offer you made, I hope that Ghost Surf is able to take you up on it - boy what I would give to hunt some of the spots you mentioned! Atlantis gave an example of how it can be, to be put on the spot with a newbie who has found something they are convinced is something of importance, no one wants to be the one to have to tell them it really isn't anything. It can be difficult to be "diplomatic" when we really don't want to discourage the person, rather we would like to encourage them to keep looking and it can be tough to find a "soft" way to say it.
I think many of us try to encourage others to keep on huntin' and searchin' for the stuff IS out there to be found, it is tough for a new person starting out to hear that some finds are not what they thought they were and we can all remember how that felt. I can remember finding more than a dozen "arrow points" under a rock ledge on a mountain as a boy, and felt ten-feet-tall as I hiked home with them, thinking how my parents would be SO impressed with them - only to have my bubble burst when my father told me they were just broken shards of PA bluestone, that happened to break into the approximate size of arrow points. He was nice about it, and showed me that you have to look at the edges especially for signs of chipping or scraping, and later introduced me to the postmaster (his boss) who was a very advanced amateur who showed me a lot on how and where to look and dig and how to tell a tool or point from a waste flake or a natural. Sometimes it is really difficult to tell a natural from a man-worked piece, the hillside here is littered with that kind - many flakes that have SOME edge working done but were discarded for some reason.
There is no shame in being an amateur or newbie at any hobby or interest, (HOPE not!) there is a "learning curve" in this subject just like many others; also even the experts can be wrong and we ALL can continue to learn more, in fact I think we all try to learn more in our fields of interest all the time.
Anyway I hope all the ruffed feathers can be smoothed down, for we ALL have a common interest here in this category, a great desire to know "what went before" and these little pieces of history we can hold in our hands have a real meaning for many of us. To the original owners, they were everyday tools and weapons, but to us, some are virtually works of art. I am no expert in this field, just another amateur with lots of interest so my appraisal of what this particular find may or may not be carries no great weight. As I said, if it were mine and I was unsure of it, it would go in the "maybe" buckets.
Man, meteorites - there is yet another field which takes some education to become proficient in! I own two (traded a small lot of land for one, purchased the other) but over the years threw away at least a half dozen that I just assumed were iron-rich, scorched looking hot rocks. If a guy were to keep every hot rock to have tested for being a meteorite, he would soon have a good pile of iron-rich rocks. There are a few places that will certify them for free or a fee, and if I should find a hot rock that has what appears to be a fusion crust I would go to the trouble of sending it in. (And NO I am no expert in meteorites either!
)Sorry for the long-winded post, just wanted to put in my two gerahs' worth.
Oroblanco
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