Hohokam Pottery

[sb33334]

Hi I posted this in the general discussion but received no response.


I purchased these at a rock and mineral show for not too much money. I assume they are fake but still look interesting. It came with the attached card. Any thoughts on whether these can actually be real? Thanks.

 

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[yakker]

Good question. Can't answer (left coast). There are some folks in particular that are from that-a-ways, who might know more than I. I hope they'll tell you! Yak

 

[sb33334]

Thanks for your response. I love the way they look. If they are real, they are very interesting, at least to me in an artistic way. I have had these for a year or so and have glanced at them wondering about the origin of them many times.

 

[monsterrack]

The flute player is one of the most faked drawings for that culture, touch the painting to see if any pigment comes off, sometimes they spray a lite coat of shellac to stop the pigment from coming off, look for a lite shine. If you did not pay much my feelings is it is not real, but it looks good. Welcome to Tnet

 

[sb33334]

The subject matter raises suspicion for me, too. But there is no shine, and no rub off. Maybe I should post some better pics.

 

[Charl]

To the best of my knowledge, they're real. I have a description of the cleaning process somewhere, but I can't find it when I need it.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/north-american-indian-artifacts/403124-hohokam-pottery-sherds.html

 

[curious kat]

Hi & welcome to the site! While I'm no expert...do find sherds of this (H) culture. Probably your best bet here would be to add closer & clearer pictures of both sides. I do agree with what monsterrack has said...and even if not artifacts...they do make nice show pieces. Thanks for sharing.

 

[sb33334]

Charl- I did see your prior post and these look identical in many ways, which is why I thought I would ask here on the forum. I will add some additional pics when I have a chance, probably tonight. Thanks.

 

[sb33334]

I had some time to add some more pics. What do you think? Thanks.

 

[Charl]

Charl- I did see your prior post and these look identical in many ways, which is why I thought I would ask here on the forum. I will add some additional pics when I have a chance, probably tonight. Thanks.

They are originating from the same source and were found at the same location in the Tucson Basin. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has determined that they are modern. I have the same descriptive card. Same original source. If I ever find out otherwise, I'll let you know. The gentleman I bought them from sent me a long description of the process used to clean them, as I was told they have a calcite(?) coating when found. I've heard of no complaints about the seller or these sherds up to this point. That little bird is a quail.

 

[unclemac]

Kokopelli is awfully darn perfect....I wouldn't touch em with a ten foot pole as reals....

 

[theviking]

Kokopelli is awfully darn perfect....I wouldn't touch em with a ten foot pole as reals....

Since we're both just speculating.. Maybe the image is darn perfect because its the actual image everyone else copied. I am no expert, they may be fake, just food for thought.

 

[sb33334]

I have had all the thoughts that you all seem to have. To me they are just too perfect, but the fakes/modern primitive style art is imitating something that was real -- why not this. Interesting that these have not been determined to be modern (at least yet).

 

[unclemac]

Since we're both just speculating.. Maybe the image is darn perfect because its the actual image everyone else copied. I am no expert, they may be fake, just food for thought.

...no, I mean it is "broke" too perfect

 

[unclemac]

look familiar?...

Artifact hohokam Pottery Piece Very Large Kokopelli 800 Ad Arizona | eBay

Artifact hohokam Pottery Piece Kokopelli 800 Ad Arizona | eBay

Artifact hohokam Pottery Piece Very Large Kokopelli 800 Ad Arizona | eBay

 

[unclemac]

read this guys feedback and view what he is selling.....

read the his description...each one is the same...
"Hohokam pottery piece buck 800AD Tucson,Arizona All of our specimen come with its own certification if authenticity"

you still think these are authentic?


eBay Feedback Profile for earthartgallery

 

[theviking]

I dont have my mind made up either way. The link you provided seem to show shards consistent with all the others available online. Not one person had a bad thing to say about the seller. Out of the last 25 transactions I think 3 showed images of Kokopelli, none looking all that perfect, seems like if they where fake the images would be more complete. Just my observation, maybe I'm way off base. Didn't that type of pot decor usually have multiple images all the way around? Doesnt seem that far fetched to have tons of shards with nearly complete images.

 

[sb33334]

I do agree that the break is too perfect.

 

[Charl]

read this guys feedback and view what he is selling.....

read the his description...each one is the same...
"Hohokam pottery piece buck 800AD Tucson,Arizona All of our specimen come with its own certification if authenticity"

you still think these are authentic?


eBay Feedback Profile for earthartgallery

Those are the sherds in question. I never sent out to an authenticator, but what I did do after the first two I bought was bring them to an acquaintance who is a Native American pottery specialist at the Rhode Island School of Design Art Museum. Although his specialty is Mexican pottery, he was very familiar with SW pottery as well. We both examined the designs under a microscope and he was really examining the paint closely. He told me they were absolutely old and authentic. He was very familiar with life forms on Hohokam pottery and everything looked right ,to him at least.

Too centered. Well, bear in mind there were hundreds of specimens collected and many are far from perfect. I also communicated directly with these people regarding how these were cleaned. I'm kicking myself for not being able to find the man's description because they are not simply picking these up off the ground and aren't they splendid; they are cleaned first to display that well. I saw incomplete examples in photos from their NJ storefront. For me, however, getting confirmation from both a pottery expert, as well as a sense that the seller was not lying to me in the least was satisfying enough. And it's true, you won't find negative feedback on the seller. Furthermore, if you frequent eBay for the same stuff frequently, you can figure out who some of the other bidders are. And I know for a fact one of the guys who bought a ton is as experienced in SW pottery as any man I know. And he left all good feedback, which also says something to me about these pieces: old and genuine.

i don't expect to assuage your concerns or opinion, but to answer your question, yes, I still think they are genuine, and I don't think you have offered any proof whatsoever that they are not, IMHO.....

 

[Charl]

I dont have my mind made up either way. The link you provided seem to show shards consistent with all the others available online. Not one person had a bad thing to say about the seller. Out of the last 25 transactions I think 3 showed images of Kokopelli, none looking all that perfect, seems like if they where fake the images would be more complete. Just my observation, maybe I'm way off base. Didn't that type of pot decor usually have multiple images all the way around? Doesnt seem that far fetched to have tons of shards with nearly complete images.

Yes, exactly, the figures always extended in a band around the entire vessel, and that is exactly why they are so numerous even on a single vessel. Furthermore, there are indeed many imperfect ones, but when there are so many that are complete, which ones sell more readily? The good ones. I know for a fact that there were AT LEAST hundreds of sherds collected. And I have seen many that are missing legs, etc, that are not as perfect as others.

sb3334, I hope I've eased some of your concerns. Nobody here really provided any evidence that these are fake, all that was offered was speculation without much evidence other then "don't trust the seller". Well, may be a sucker born every minute, but people should offer actual evidence, not foundation less speculation