How to find legends.....

[Blind.In.Texas]

okay. i'm no dummy and i believe in solid research (cuz gas is high). what i want to know is. how is it that these treasure legends and leads come to be known or heard of. most of us alive today weren't back then, so......considering all the heads the knowledge has passed through during the many years of their collective existances i would think that many of these are just that. legends and rumors.....why? because a good many people make their statements and comments in a factual manner rather than a heresay manner. even back then. and this leads to blindingly blind leads. NUTSHELL: how does one come by a legend? internet, newspaper, magazines. i have my own ideas about how i might come up with a few, but, as i have never started think about his until recently, i am probably wrong.

i think that any real treasures that are out there are still there and still buried and i dont believe that a good many of the landlocked treasures will be all that deep. (unless under water)

i can't stand to dig 10" in southeast texas soil (unless i have a godd reason) much less a 5' deep hole to drop in some loot that i plan on coming back for. you dig? some of these places seem very logical to have caches in them. anyone ever hear of Robber's Cave?

i heard that scobby-doo has a cache of scooby snacks buried under the Taj-Mahal. True or not true? I doubt it, but hey, Magilla Gorilla told me so. if i wanted to know for sure if magilla was lieing how i would since he has been dead for over 185 years. (sarcasm, no offense intended)

i want to treasure hunt. and i want to find something awesome. i also want to learn how to substaniate the claims and/or stories so i don't wear myself out in the wrong direction. with so many stories, legends, boldfaced lies by the dead, crooks, maps that lie like sinners, greedy spanish priests, honest banditos, and catholic schoolgirls all in the hunt for gold.... and pirates......who bury deep because they know that they'll never be back for it, if they have reason to bury, and will never allow anyone else to have it.

i hunted for my first ghost town today. i found it. quite far from the map site. wrong side of the road. description was mostly wrong. dug too many holes in places i had no intention of getting out and digging and found the town on the way home. quite by accident and quite unnoticeable.

i understand how to substantiate by foot. ghost towns a re far different from caches.......



beware who you are in with....they are not always in with you.......

 

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[grizzly bare]

Will, you have just asked the $64.00 question. If we KNEW that legends were true, we'd never waste our time digging all those dry holes. Personally, I have a "formula" for treasure. If there is a basis of fact and then independent verification, I see a place to BEGIN research.
Examples?
Well, Charles Wilson's cache on Assateague. The letter to his brother telling where the cache was located is still available. If we check his record as a pirate, we can see that he really did steal a lot of plunder. But there is no other independent verification. So (and remember the cache is protected by National/State park land) no searching.
Pirate Charles Harris' chest at Newport Cliffs was told to his hangmen in an attempt to save his neck. It didn't work and he swung. But in the 50's?-60's? a large chest was seen during a lull in a storm. Before the folks could get back to salvage it, the tide had re-covered whatever was there and the young lady couldn't remember exactly where she had seen the chest.
Now we have both oral tradition (Harris' word) and later discovery (a seen chest). Now we can BEGIN to search for more information.
Did Ben Sublett have a gold mine? Texas mythology says YES, and Sublett's son Rolth actually saw the adit of the mine (but not the gold inside). On another occasion, Ben gave directions to a friend who went to the mine and came back with much gold. Legend and verification. Enough to start doing in-depth research.
I am absolutely not an expert, this is just the way I begin my hunt.
But remember...I ain't never found nothing!

grizzly bare

 

[Kentucky Kache]

I know I've said this before, but, Take a look at the old census
records. If John doe is worth $20,000 in 1850, and then in 1860
he's only worth $5,000, I gotta wonder where that $15,000 is.
Some of his children might now have their own families (in 1860). If
they don't hold the money, keep looking.
Now, if that same John Doe has a buried treasure story, I'm gonna call
that a good lead.

 

[bja3908]

Will research reseach reseach, I do not believe in lost mines or spend time on treasures that have been in numbers of books.Over the last 30+ years I have found a few good treasures and dug a lot of holes. ALL my leads come from talking to oldtimers old news papers etc. I try hard to prove that so and so never had any money to cach. If I can not prove that them the hunts on. Remember I have wrote several mag articles only after I gave up on that project, and most article in the mag,s are the same. I no not think anyone will tell you where to find treasure unless they tried to find it with no luck. What gt were you looking for there are several between Gal and Houston that I can gave you info on pm me if I can help.
Bobby

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[jbot link=
***********
Mistresses can be expensive.

Tropical Tramp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[=bja3908
I do not believe in lost mines or spend time on treasures that have been in numbers of books.
Bobby
****************
Why Bobby? All that means is that the instructions are not complete or incorrect, but the basis? . It does take time to sort things out for sure.

If I had believed that, Tayopa would still be lost.

Tropicsl Tramp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=SWR
I think the title of your post “How to find legends” hosts the keyword to your quest.
Legend 1.c. - A romanticized or popularized myth of modern times.
**************
Not always true, see above post and I also refer you to Troy and recent finds in the world based upon biblical, or religeous references or legends. Not to mention The Lost Jesuit mines of Tayopa, which I now own.

Tropical Tramp

 

[Kentucky Kache]

[jbot link=
***********
Mistresses can be expensive.

Tropical Tramp

And they don't give receipts.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=jbot link=]
[jbot link=
***********
And they don't give receipts.
**********

"SO" I have heard, heheheheh.

Tropical Tramp

 

[Blind.In.Texas]

HOW TO uncover LEADS OF MY OWN:
a disparaging question posted by one WILL.DIG.FOR.FOOD

Many thanks to all who have something positive and kind to say. I, in no way, request leads from any one else. I realize that some of these leads are true. Some are not. What I should clarify is that I want to do research through records. And discover information. Much the same way attorneys do. The way private investigators do. What I want to do is go through any types of records that the public may have access to, but, few use.

What types of record would the public have access to that would give give an indicator as to who someone was, what they may have had, so on so on.

Cold start if you will. Legends are popularized and sometimes/oftentimes overblown. Dates are very important to me. I realize that as civilization encroaches upon the outer limits of its current boundaries many things are permanently lost under concrete and modernization. I think rationally and logically when it comes to finding things. Logic does not always pan out. Without it, though, NOTHING pans out.

I know that some folks believe whole-heartedly in the recovery of things hidden or lost and I would never ask anyone to give me info of their own. Just help in putting me on the right track as to how to do it myself. Or help me if you want to tag along.

Finding leads and where to look for them is the main focus......I will never venture out for something until I have knowledge of some sort to substantiate the effort.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Will---- unfortunately that would depend greatly upon the time period, location, and what as well as who is involved.

You are correct, eliminate the ovious chaf, but be sure that you don't throw the wheat away also. Sometimes this cannot be done, however ----.

In the case of Tayopa, it took almost 40 years off and on. 1958 to 1998 to finally locate it.. The associated data on the other 6 mines lost at the same time, is still in the ongoing stage, but progressing.

Basically, the best that I can say to you, is to try to put yourelf in the original person's place and do what he must have done at THAT TIME, PLACE, AND PERIOD WITH HIS/HER FACILITES!.

Tropical Tramp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

VIVA TROY!

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Viva TAYOPA

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

And 100 other legends that have been found. No need to go further in what is obviusly a flawed reasoning in face of proven results.

Tropical Tramp

 

[simonds]

I have to agree with Tropical Tramp. You have to put yourself into the same time period as when this legend was supposed to take place. Same month, same day. Everything changes over the years. We used to have 3 to 4 feet diameter white pine trees in our area, (virgin forests years ago). Now you are lucky to find any that are 16 inches in diameter. They used to float those large logs down the river to the Chesapeake bay. Right now today I can walk across most of these rivers with a low cut boot and not get my feet wet. You have to see it through their eyes exactly the way they seen it to know where to look for things that they left behind. Walk the same path as they did and look for the same things that they seen.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

right on SIMONDS!

Tropical Tramp

 

[audigger53]

Start out with the research, then put it through the mill of Common Sense.
Would you have done that? Cached it, buried it, cover it over with concrete, ect.
One that my brother and went to look for twice, failed the Common Sense test.
Three guys robbed a stage at a stage station, took three strong boxes off the stage and then waited hours for the West bound stage to come in.
My thought was 3 guys, 3 strong boxes, lots of spare horses to pack out the boxes. Why would anyone wait around?
Mexico and further south, here we come!<G>
The loot was already devided up, lots of spare pack horses and four to five days to Mexico.
You would not believe all the holes that have been dug in the area of the old stage station as the story says that they buried the 3 strong boxes. The posse that "killed them" found no fresh signs of digging, after they had killed them. They were watched the whole time before the posse arrived(Sure, they were.<G>).
Pine Springs Robbery, is the write up for the story. South of Flagstaff,Az.

 

[Jeffro]

Legends and myths.... best guess would be 80 to 90 percent of them are just that, or have already been found. Then theres that other 10 to 20 percent.....

Geneology sites can be helpful. The Mormons have the most extensive records. Takes awhile to get your bearings going down that path though.....

Old newpaper accounts can be a good place to start. Most libraries have them on microfiche.

Reading old "Lost Treasure" books.... well, now we are back to legends and myths and author's interpretation. The GOOD ones list their references in the back.... time to go and dig these up and interpret them for yourself!

Personal journals and diaries... check with the historical societies in the areas you are interested in. I know one lost mine here in Oregon that has turned out to be factual from accounts from some of the original settlers of my area.... people who weren't connected with the mine, storekeepers and traders who saw the gold......

Museums often have reference collections to.... journals and diaries of people who founded an area of interest.

Geologic reports! Published by the state or federal government, good sources. Check with the local college for thesis papers of a particular area.

Sanborn maps- colleges again, or online for some. Shows city dwellings on plat maps from WAY back. (1856 I think)

And last, but definately not least, talk to the elderly. Never know what will come up...

I'm sure there's a lot more that others will chime in here with, but thats enough to get you going.

 

[Blind.In.Texas]

thank yoooou JEFFROOO!!!! that's what i'm talking about. finding places to read about things that stand out. high profile characters and records about them. pick one and see where it takes me. like a kids chapter book. you hit the nail on the head for me. and if i don't find anything really substantial, then, at least i have an arsenal of sources that i look through.

i really do appreciate the input folks. very kind!!

 

[Stroover]

Hi Will,
Let me put my 1.83 CDN cents worth:
For me, treasure hunting is all about the thrill of the hunt. If it wasn't, I'd have quit a long time ago since I have yet to "stike it big". As a history teacher and historian, I have come up with my own definitions of "myth" and "legend": A myth is largely something unexplainable attempted to be explained by the people of the time of the occurence (i.e. the ghost ship of the Northumberland Straight, now thought to be a natural phenomenom, for the people a few hundred years ago who knew nothing about phenomena, that was a ghost ship!), whereas a legend is usually based on an actual event which has been exagerated and distorted over the course of many years of re-telling the story.

That being said, it's important to note that every legend got started with something factual (at least I think most of them). The trick is to seperate the facts from the fiction. Start with a legend (if you don't have one in particular, google "legends" for your general area to try this out); look-up everything you can about the legend (try to find books about it), and from different sources. You may find that the legend varies slightly from source to source, but certain elements remain consistant: Chances are the less "fantasy" parts of these are factual, or at least may lead you to positive leads. Legends from smaller villages may not have much litterature on it, but they may have a local museum: get tight with the curator and get their assistance in researching. Talk to the elderly in the area about it: They may not have been there, but the stories they heard about it could light up that little lightbulb over your head.

Some legends, especially ones with ghosts or monsters, tend to have been fabricated from the get-go, but for a more devious reason than one might suspect: People were trying to deliberately frighten others in order to keep them away from a site. Case in point: The Ghost of Richibucto, where there actually was a ghost (well, actually a sheet attached to a clothes line and pulleys going accross a road) that was meant to keep people away while rum runners would get a run going. This legend based during the prohibition, later led hunters to a cache of burried moonshine bottles a few years ago. Not exactly gold, but cool nontheless.

Have you ever watched Myth Busters on TLC? Well, try to become a Legend Buster and ask yourself how did this legend began and why, then start plugging away at it. That's what I do. I spend the off seasons doing exactly this, then I go on my field trips during the summer months (I live in Canada, so not much TH'ing in the snow). And like Jeffro said, most of these possible treasures have already been found, but there remains the 10-20%...

Hope I didn't bore everyone with my long post again.
JC