I was in a bar the other day, talking to a friend about Texas pioneering days...

[Noodle]

EVERY land on this earth has been in constant battle for occupation. For Europe, it was the Romans. For pre-Europeans in what is now the Americas, it was the different tribes of what we now call the United States of America. Before Columbus EVER arrived here, tribes were fighting one another for land, buffalo, etc. They killed each other over these wars and for far pettier things, such as whose daughters married whose sons.

Do NOT tell ME that I have to make a sacrificial monetary gift to these people. I already am paying for the lands they live on (reservations), medical, educational and clothing.

I am a white female. Indians kidnapped my ancestors. WHAT DO THEY OWE ME?

Git a grip, folks!!! Time marches on. We do not go back 500 years to other occupations! Those times were our ancestors' times. "Pay" them back now!!!?? - Noodle

 

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[MEinWV]

gnewt,

A very big thank you for your evenhanded, levelheaded, no blame history lesson for all of us. The blame then, and now, lies with the underhanded opportunists who play us all like puppets. We still see them today in the form of some leaders and corporations on the world stage, and even in our state and local governments. It will always be this way and some will fight the good fight.

It's no body's fault and it's everybody's fault. It is a matter of survival for many!

How true that we are merely pawns in the chess game of life

Go in a good way!

 

[MEinWV]

mike,

You did the right thing! It would make no sense to make more out of it than it was.

 

[Zincoln Miner]

when a white person rants in front of me about indian injustice,I tell them to find an indian family and give
them there land.they shut up real quick.

one time an indian ranted to me but I let him go at it(he warned me before hand that he was prone to it).

a local tribe's (not officially recognised) website states that they had no concept of ownership.but in the same paragraph they say the land was leased. :P

I do know the early dutch settlers would have to keep a close eye on tools,the natives believed what came
from the earth had no owner.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

EVERY land on this earth has been in constant battle for occupation. For Europe, it was the Romans. For pre-Europeans in what is now the Americas, it was the different tribes of what we now call the United States of America. Before Columbus EVER arrived here, tribes were fighting one another for land, buffalo, etc. They killed each other over these wars and for far pettier things, such as whose daughters married whose sons.

Do NOT tell ME that I have to make a sacrificial monetary gift to these people. I already am paying for the lands they live on (reservations), medical, educational and clothing.

I am a white female. Indians kidnapped my ancestors. WHAT DO THEY OWE ME?

Git a grip, folks!!! Time marches on. We do not go back 500 years to other occupations! Those times were our ancestors' times. "Pay" them back now!!!?? - Noodle

You can't blame a dog for biting you if you wander into HIS yard. Especially if you're there to claim his yard as your own.

What has happened to our basic understanding?

 

[Kentucky Kache]

We need to be Americans first and everything else second so that we can defend our CURRENT HOMELAND from all invaders.

You lost, get over it.

This is the point. Why do we want to defend against invaders? WHAT MAKES US THINK THAT ANY OTHER PEOPLE WOULDN'T DO THE SAME? I don't think the Indians are the biggest loosers here.

when a white person rants in front of me about indian injustice,I tell them to find an indian family and give
them there land.they shut up real quick.

Ain't gonna work with THIS white boy. Sorry, but I just don't think it's all that important what you think.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

And the pioneers and others got "bitten," but they eventually had the bigger "dogs."

Moving from place to place is human nature. ALL peoples have been displaced at one time or another. And believe it or not, the Native Americans have been treated better than most other native peoples. What happened to the Celts and the Saxons? What became of the Incas? People need to quit finding reasons to line up on opposite sides in this country. Do the terrorists see us as Native Americans vs. Europeans vs. Descendants of Slaves, etc? HELL NO! They see us as Americans and so should we. But I feel your pain because I feel that the illegal aliens are pushing me out of my homeland. So I guess what goes around comes around, huh? Does that make you happy, jbot?

So, you Do care, but only when it happens to you. Problem solved.

No, I don't think we should turn things over to illegal aliens. If you think that makes me happy, then you don't understand one word I'm trying to say.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

This is the point. Why do we want to defend against invaders? WHAT MAKES US THINK THAT ANY OTHER PEOPLE WOULDN'T DO THE SAME? I don't think the Indians are the biggest loosers here.

HUH? Why do we want to defend against invaders? What the heck where you just ranting about if not "invaders" in Native American lands? Maybe YOU don't want to defend against invaders. I DO. Don't get in my way because I may not be able to determine whose side you're on. I mean it, don't get in my way when the sh!t hits the fan. I'm defending my homeland as fiercely as the Native Americans did. The outcome might be the same, but I'm going to try. I don't know what to think of you. You seem to have some strange loyalties - or lack of loyalties. Gawd, no wonder this country is screwed up.

Read it again, the words AFTER the red letters. Point was that if we retain the right to defend againt illegal aliens, then how can we say the natives had no such rights.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

And the pioneers and others got "bitten," but they eventually had the bigger "dogs."

Moving from place to place is human nature. ALL peoples have been displaced at one time or another. And believe it or not, the Native Americans have been treated better than most other native peoples. What happened to the Celts and the Saxons? What became of the Incas? People need to quit finding reasons to line up on opposite sides in this country. Do the terrorists see us as Native Americans vs. Europeans vs. Descendants of Slaves, etc? HELL NO! They see us as Americans and so should we. But I feel your pain because I feel that the illegal aliens are pushing me out of my homeland. So I guess what goes around comes around, huh? Does that make you happy, jbot?

So, you Do care, but only when it happens to you. Problem solved.

No, I don't think we should turn things over to illegal aliens. If you think that makes me happy, then you don't understand one word I'm trying to say.

You got that part right. I don't understand anything you're trying to say. What are you saying? Just spit it out why don't you? You are contradicting yourself.

Should I be remorseful about things I never did? Should I feel guilty about what my ancestors did to other ancestors of mine? Should I be pissed off at the Indians who may have harassed my peaceful American ancestors? You think the pain was only one-sided? Maybe you should feel guilty for the misdeeds your ancestors did in Europe. Maybe you should feel bad for where you are living right now. Guilt - that's the tactic of the left. I'm not guilty of anything and I REFUSE to be manipulated into feeling guilt about anything. I am proud of my ancestors - all of them. And I've NOTHING to feel bad about. Sorry to disappoint you. Try the guilt and shame trip on somebody else - it won't work with me.

Don't try WHAT on you? I don't even know you. You chimed in on this conversation just like I did. Why does it always have to be left wing or right wing? Unfortunately, I don't have wings. With me it's not political correctness, but basic common sense. You steal from someone, you are responsible for it.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

This is the point. Why do we want to defend against invaders? WHAT MAKES US THINK THAT ANY OTHER PEOPLE WOULDN'T DO THE SAME? I don't think the Indians are the biggest loosers here.

HUH? Why do we want to defend against invaders? What the heck where you just ranting about if not "invaders" in Native American lands? Maybe YOU don't want to defend against invaders. I DO. Don't get in my way because I may not be able to determine whose side you're on. I mean it, don't get in my way when the sh!t hits the fan. I'm defending my homeland as fiercely as the Native Americans did. The outcome might be the same, but I'm going to try. I don't know what to think of you. You seem to have some strange loyalties - or lack of loyalties. Gawd, no wonder this country is screwed up.

Read it again, the words AFTER the red letters. Point was that if we retain the right to defend againt illegal aliens, then how can we say the natives had no such rights.

Who in the hell said the natives didn't have the right to defend their homelands? WHO SAID THAT AND WHERE WAS THAT SAID? You are reading things that aren't there. That's the problem all too often, making things appear out of thin air. They did fight to defend their lands, but they were outnumbered and their weapons weren't as good. My native ancestors did fight to maintain their culture and their homelands, but they lost. They got over it. They married my European ancestors. They learned to move on and make the best of things. Nobody that I know of - NOBODY - said the Native Americans shouldn't or couldn't or needn't defend themselves and their way of life. But like MOST wars, there is a loser and a winner. Aggression and movement is natural, if you want to change human nature, good luck with that. I've got no real problem with you jbot, but I don't understand this unending hostility. It's ruining this country. It is going to be the death of us.

Just above, someone was saying how the Indians captured their ancesters. That's just one.

 

[Zincoln Miner]

 

[Kentucky Kache]

I'm not trying to change ANYTHING, I know it's not gonna change until it's time.
Just giving my point of view.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

This is the point. Why do we want to defend against invaders? WHAT MAKES US THINK THAT ANY OTHER PEOPLE WOULDN'T DO THE SAME? I don't think the Indians are the biggest loosers here.

HUH? Why do we want to defend against invaders? What the heck where you just ranting about if not "invaders" in Native American lands? Maybe YOU don't want to defend against invaders. I DO. Don't get in my way because I may not be able to determine whose side you're on. I mean it, don't get in my way when the sh!t hits the fan. I'm defending my homeland as fiercely as the Native Americans did. The outcome might be the same, but I'm going to try. I don't know what to think of you. You seem to have some strange loyalties - or lack of loyalties. Gawd, no wonder this country is screwed up.

Read it again, the words AFTER the red letters. Point was that if we retain the right to defend againt illegal aliens, then how can we say the natives had no such rights.

Who in the hell said the natives didn't have the right to defend their homelands? WHO SAID THAT AND WHERE WAS THAT SAID? You are reading things that aren't there. That's the problem all too often, making things appear out of thin air. They did fight to defend their lands, but they were outnumbered and their weapons weren't as good. My native ancestors did fight to maintain their culture and their homelands, but they lost. They got over it. They married my European ancestors. They learned to move on and make the best of things. Nobody that I know of - NOBODY - said the Native Americans shouldn't or couldn't or needn't defend themselves and their way of life. But like MOST wars, there is a loser and a winner. Aggression and movement is natural, if you want to change human nature, good luck with that. I've got no real problem with you jbot, but I don't understand this unending hostility. It's ruining this country. It is going to be the death of us.

Just above, someone was saying how the Indians captured their ancesters. That's just one.

So somebody said Indians captured their ancestors. Does that translate in your head into "the Indians should not have defended their lands?" That's not what I got out of that post. I tend to take the posts at face value. No need, IMO, to read things into somebody's words. Geez, why look for something that isn't there? Or at least ask the poster for some clarification before making your accusations. Check your "facts" and maybe you'll find out you projected your ideas or feelings onto somebody else.

The native people of this country should have the right to defend themselves NOW, not just two hunred years ago.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

I'm not trying to change ANYTHING, I know it's not gonna change until it's time.
Just giving my point of view.

OK, let's try to understand each other instead of beating each other over the head. WHAT is not going to change until it's time? That is such a vague statement. I want to know what you mean so that I can think about it before replying. Please, elaborate. I would like to know your point of view, right now I'm not sure what it is.

"He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity". (Not my words).

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Defend themselves in what way? Defend themselves from what? And who do you consider Natives? Let's get the basics established so we're both on the same page, OK?

In any way they are offended against. Wouldn't you do the same? As for me, I'm just defending the fact that the white race did a great injustice, in the name of justice.

Let's see, who are the natives of this country. Could it be the people that were here when we showed up? I think so.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Defend themselves in what way? Defend themselves from what? And who do you consider Natives? Let's get the basics established so we're both on the same page, OK?

In any way they are offended against. Wouldn't you do the same? As for me, I'm just defending the fact that the white race did a great injustice, in the name of justice.

Let's see, who are the natives of this country. Could it be the people that were here when we showed up? I think so.

So you think Native should try to take back all the land? Or you think they should become economically superior and ruin the lives of millions of people who never did them any harm? I just don't understand your thinking. Who is to blame for the way the Indians live today? Are you? Am I? As I said, I didn't take anything from anybody and I wouldn't know who to fight or what to defend because I'm both Native and European/American. So what in the world could possibly be accomplished by continuing to harbor hostilities?

No, I would NOT do the same. That's ludicrous.

Come on TT you're just like me, any time someone says the slightest thing to you, you go off on them. So you would just let someone run over you then?

I said nothing about giving anything back to anyone. Now take your own advice and understand what people say.

Ruin the lives of people who did them no harm. Exactly which side are you talking about?

I'm both Native and European/American. So what in the world could possibly be accomplished by continuing to harbor hostilities? I, too have blood on both sides, so I'm not biased by lineage. I'm certainly not biased by politics, I have no politics.
It's a simple right or wrong issue. It seems that everybody use to know that, but now all that is changed. Well, I don't have to change just because the world has.

You really don't know who was here first, you only think you know. This is a very slippery slope. So, because someone else MIGHT have been here first. We know who WAS here when the white man arrived.
You forgot one. As has already been mentioned, the Indians were fighting among themselves, so really all we did was tame them. We did the same for the black man.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Did you know that the Indians were not the first people on this continent?

You really don't know who was here first, you only think you know.

Talk about contradicting yourself.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Shall I quote the Bible to you this time?

No.

If I'm misguided then you shouldn't want to hear what I'm talking about.

You make it sound like I started this thread. I didn't, I'm just one of the posters, responding with my beliefs like the others. I keep replying because I keep getting questions and comments on my statements.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

TT, do Bible quotes offend you? Just asking.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

All hat and no horse. That's fine, a real mature statement. I like the end of the horse I am. Do you like the end of the horse you are?

Why would I try to intemidate you? Do you think you are above all others who post here?