**ICE**

[Carl-NC]

Look at it from my perspective: once upon a time someone dug a very deep hole on OI that started to rapidly fill with water. Not understanding the underlying geology of the island, they speculated that it was caused by a man-made flood tunnel simply because that explanation would fit in their overall desired narrative that they were chasing a mysterious buried treasure. But the entire story is speculation heaped on top of speculation, and when you start over using evidence and rational analysis the whole thing evaporates into a big pile of nothingness.

 

[GravelTeeth]

once upon a time someone dug a very deep hole on OI that started to rapidly fill with water. Not understanding the underlying geology of the island, they speculated that it was caused by a man-made flood tunnel simply because that explanation would fit in their overall desired narrative that they were chasing a mysterious buried treasure.

Certainly a possibility. Maybe even a probability.

Let's talk about strange coincidences, though: Excavation of the Money Pit (for whatever reason they decided to search there) reaches a certain depth when suddenly water begins to encroach. Some years later, a series of filtered drains are discovered converging on one central man-made channel that disappears into the shoreline heading in the direction of the Money Pit. That's an interesting coincidence. Many years after that, an oddly small and previously unrecorded (despite overlapping membership from previous search syndicates) man-made tunnel is intercepted at 111 feet in the eastern wall of the Money Pit. From which seawater is gushing forth. Huh. That's a really strange coincidence. That chain of weirdness might mean nothing, or it might mean Something. Choose your own adventure.

P.S. Google's A.I. just told me that the drains were thought to be designed to drain water away from the Money Pit ... like, back out to sea?? First time I've ever seen that theory. I think the A.I. is making stuff up.

--GT

 

[SSR]

Case not closed just because you or any other internet pontificators say so. You've repeatedly referred to Smith's Cove as the "working end" of the island while being unable or unwilling to provide citations to support this notion. The finger drains are unsolved. The extent and nature of the small rectangular inlet tunnel at 111 feet is unsolved. These will almost certainly remain unsolved because they've been essentially destroyed by subsequent search efforts. Case most definitely open, to remain so unless and until historical documentation appears that we can evaluate on its merits.

What you meant to say, I'm sure, is "in my opinion ... ."

And not to get drawn in too much on hydro-engineering, which is way out of my depth (!), but if I recall correctly the Money Pit was essentially at the highest point on the island at around 32 feet above sea level. 111 - 32 is still 79 feet below sea level, making the putative path of any flood tunnel from the box drains still a downhill affair over the length of ~500 feet, giving us a roughly 9° gradient. The gradient could be even steeper from distances of less than that to account for speculated collection shafts further inland, or shallower if such structures had their Money Pit-facing egress below sea level.

--GT

You overvalue your baseless opinions about worn out fictions. What is known is known and not made less known by you objecting to it. It is super hard to know. I takes work and effort to know. Knowing does not involve convincing people who refuse to know. You, going on about what we don' know is you refusing to know what can be known. The "box" pier structure in that cove was made of house timbers dating to ca. 1760+/- a couple of decades. That is early days. Casper Wollenhaupt owned that end of the Island early on. He was a merchant of textiles and various wares in Lunenburg. Go on and tell us about what you don' know now. You could fill many books, no doubt. Some of what you don't know you were told you don' know from books. I read books that tell me what we know you don't know.

 

[n2mini]

Just throwing out the Devils Advocate side here, but you are assuming what you read in the books is true/accurate.. A lot of what we know about OI is or was written in articles, books, transcripts etc. yet most on here say those aren't true. Everything we read about history is not 100% true of course. It's hand me down stories, which is easy to have the writer's opinion slipped in there...

 

[chalkoutline]

How important is the source of water?
Does either have bearing on whether there is treasure in the MP?
IOW,
Ground water=no treasure?
Flood tunnels=treasure?

Is that whats behind the back and forth?

 

[Carl-NC]

Some years later, a series of filtered drains are discovered converging on one central man-made channel that disappears into the shoreline heading in the direction of the Money Pit.

The box drains are, so far, the only potentially interesting tidbit that's come out of OI. I say "potentially" because even they are also speculative. Unfortunately, no real archaeologist got in there to study them and there's no recorded evidence of them. Dunsfeld apparently studied them and determined they had no connection to a flood tunnel. I assume they have been obliterated by now, like everything else.

Many years after that, an oddly small and previously unrecorded (despite overlapping membership from previous search syndicates) man-made tunnel is intercepted at 111 feet in the eastern wall of the Money Pit. From which seawater is gushing forth. Huh. That's a really strange coincidence.

Another speculation piled on the heaping gobs of speculation. How was it determined to be man-made?

 

[GravelTeeth]

Casper Wollenhaupt owned that end of the Island early on. He was a merchant of textiles and various wares in Lunenburg.

If you are telling us that your source for "working end of the island" is simply that Wollenhaupt was a businessman, well I'm sorry but that's not going to cut it.

I don't think I've seen this species of arrogance before where you claim to have data but won't share where it came from and then talk down your nose at people for not knowing it. What was it that you said in the other thread ? ... "there is no excuse for you to not be aware of it." And yet you hoard your sources like Smaug's treasure.

I takes work and effort to know.

Is that it then, you feel like you "own" this knowledge because you put some effort into research? Scholars and scientists put lots of effort into their work every day, and then they PUBLISH. It's the only way to keep everyone honest. If you are not afraid of the critique of your peers, put your work where your mouth is.

Otherwise I'm just calling bullshit on these data points you raise which cannot be vetted. So, the notion that there's historical evidence for commerce being done at Smith's Cove? Bullshit. Fake news. Falsified data. Moving on.

--GT

 

[GravelTeeth]

How important is the source of water?
Does either have bearing on whether there is treasure in the MP?
IOW,
Ground water=no treasure?
Flood tunnels=treasure?

Is that whats behind the back and forth?

The supposed flood tunnels were one of the features which brought so much intrigue to the mystery and tended to capture the public's attention. It's included in most of the newpaper article re-tellings from the old days. It doesn't necessarily make the Money Pit as man-made feature impossible, but if there was no "trap" it is just way less interesting, I think.

Going back to the time of Bowdoin and his attempts to destroy the legend for his own personal revenge reasons, the box drains/flood tunnels have been a favorite target for the skeptics who wish to debunk anything connected with the Money Pit phenomenon. You end up with elaborate theories presented as fact and some people ridiculously trying to claim that flood tunnels have been "proven" false, when in reality there are just competing ideas, some more grounded in likelihood than others.

--GT

 

[GravelTeeth]

Another speculation piled on the heaping gobs of speculation. How was it determined to be man-made?

Oh sorry, I thought you'd been reading the whole thread. It was rectangular and lined with beach stones and other strata. You could test this in your own yard with a hose left running on the ground: it would be very unusual for water making its own way to create a squared-off channel (putting aside for the moment Wonnacott's assertion that water can't make its own way through clay till).

Of the two skeptics' theories for this 111 tunnel, the one that says it was an unrecorded searcher tunnel seems far more likely than it being natural.

I'll also take this opportunity to point out that Occam's Razor, which you are fond of, is an awesome tool to keep in your utility belt. It helps make quick assessments about novel situations and get you moving towards a solution or plan of action when required. But it's not a law of the universe. Many, many, MANY things have happened which are incredibly "unlikely" but nevertheless did occur. If these sites had not been obliterated, we might've had a chance to use Holmesian wisdom as a companion to Occam: when you've eliminated the probable, what's left, however improbable, must be the truth (paraphrased).

--GT

 

[chalkoutline]

Since the discussion has contributed, I do have question...
In one of the COOI episodes, it was mentioned that one search team poured green die into the MP and it came at Smith's Cove and also north of the island.

If this is true...does that indicate natural voids or flood tunnels?