✅ SOLVED Is This A Swaged Bullet

[deershed]

Found this CW bullet today, is it a 6 spoke swage bullet? Was this hand carved and why was it done?

 

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[jamesbibb]

It is a swaged bullet
The groves are formed by a lathe in which the rings were cut into the bullet

A slug is pressed into a bullet then transferred to a lathe that cut the rings and left that mark in the base

 

[deershed]

Thanks!!

Why wouldn't all the bullets have those same marks?

 

[releventchair]

Perhaps the tailstock center of the particular lathe(s) was splined to prevent the bullet slipping when grooves were cut.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Jamesbibb is correct. That specific version of bullet is called a "Machine-Pressed-&-Turned" (MP&T) bullet. It was not made by pouring molten lead into a bulletmold. Instead, a lead slug was placed into a machine which compressed the lead slug into the desired shape of bullet. Then, body-grooves were cut into the bullet's sides by a lathe. That is why it is called a "machine-pressed" and "turned" bullet. Due to a naming error in an old book on civil war bullets, we civil war relic diggers call that type a "swaged" bullet, but in actuality it was not made by swaging the lead.

Also, Relevantchair got it right. The six indented lines in your MP&T bullet were made by the part of the lathe machine which held the bullet firmly in position while the grooves were being cut into it. On rare occasions, the bullet "slipped" a little bit when the lathe's cutting-tool first dug into it, causing small ridges to form alongside the indented lines in the base. See the photo below.

 

[deershed]

That's Awesome CannonBallGuy,that's for the great information!!

Thanks to jamesbibb and releventchair too,great getting a history lesson.

One more question guys,about how often does this happen? We only found a handful of CW bullets so far,probably around 180. This was the only one found like this. On a one to ten how rare are these " Swaged " bullets?

Thanks again!!

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

The 3-groove .58-caliber "Machine-Pressed-&-Turned" minies with 5 or 6 "spokes" in their conical base-cavity do not show up on battlefields until 1863. (For example, they did not yet exist at the time of the 1862 Antietam battle in Maryland, where you live.) Therefore, they are somewhat rarer than the common moldcast-lead versions of 3-groove minies, which were used throughout 1861-65. However, by early-1864 the Yankees were using their bullet-making machines to produce multi-millions of the incorrectly-named "swaged" bullets. They have been dug in significant quantities at 1864-65 battlesites in nearly all of the Southern states. So, they are not a whole lot rarer than their cast-lead cousins.

As a consolation for you about that, I'll mention that the 6-spokes version you found is somewhat rarer than the 5-spokes version.

You asked for a Rarity-rating on a 1-to-10 scale (with a 10 rating being the rarest). I would rate your unfired 6-spokes minie at 3. I think their price at civil war relic-shows is a more "tangible" indicator. Typical unfired yankee .58-caliber 3-groove CAST-LEAD minies sell for about $2. Your nice-condition unfired 6-spokes MP&T minie would "retail" for about $6.

 

[Davers]

Cool
I,m learning A lot today.
Funny, out of the Few-hundred Mines I've dug here just North Of Atlanta ; I have never dug a Swaged minie before not even a fired one, but hey I've only dug a handful of Gardiner's & all have been fired.
Davers

 

[deershed]

Thanks again CannonBallGuy!! Like the Gardiner's bullet I found I wouldn't think about selling this either.What ever find it is,it's all the more special the more you know about it.And you definitely know your stuff.
Now I know another Sweet CW bullet and have a great understanding of the history behind it.

Thanks to you I can post this thread as being solved....