Ivory carving

[Mintberrycrunch]

I actually pick this up at a yard sale last summer for $1. It's almost 7 ounces looking to find out its age and any value. It's definitely pre ban but it seems like ivory is kinda a touchy subject. Any help is much appreciated thanks

 

[Mintberrycrunch]

Pictures might help

 

[gunsil]

Looks like a fairly recent tourist grade piece since the carving is not great quality. No such thing as pre-ban now, one can no longer sell elephant ivory interstate unless the piece can be proven to be over 100 years old. Many states no longer allow sales of any elephant ivory at all. I love the stuff, have some, but it is no longer as valuable as it once was since it is a pain to sell it.

 

[Mintberrycrunch]

Looks like a fairly recent tourist grade piece since the carving is not great quality. No such thing as pre-ban now, one can no longer sell elephant ivory interstate unless the piece can be proven to be over 100 years old. Many states no longer allow sales of any elephant ivory at all. I love the stuff, have some, but it is no longer as valuable as it once was since it is a pain to sell it.

You can tell its elephant ivory for sure? It does look hand carved and it might be low quality but I think she's pretty checked out a few images online some were kinda ugly.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

This might be helpful:

https://www.fws.gov/endangered/laws-policies/

And this:

Overview of Current Ivory Law | Antiques Roadshow | PBS

Of course, as pointed out above, there are state laws to consider, as well.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo, CM

 

[huntsman53]

Some Ivory pieces are hard to determine their age. The piece appears to be of African origin and you might want to contact a museum with African exhibits for verification of age and origin. They might even take it off your' hands and save you any possible legal trouble.


Frank

 

[gunsil]

You can tell its elephant ivory for sure? It does look hand carved and it might be low quality but I think she's pretty checked out a few images online some were kinda ugly.

Yes it is definitely elephant ivory, the tell tale grain is quite visible in your photos. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and if you think she's beautiful that is all that matters. I merely stated the carving was tourist grade since it is not a very intricately carved one as are the better grades.

 

[tamrock]

I'd think you could get maybe $175 - $250 out of it, if you could pull off an online sale. I see they still sell the real stuff by playing ignorant and listing it as faux ivory carving and bone ivory carvings. I have this 100 + year old, carved ivory lotus flower brooch from China I'd like to unload online, as that's how I'd get the most out of it I believe, but I'm to honest to play stupid, so maybe I'll find someone who would appreciate it and take it as trade for something I could sell legally online. Also I have a ivory scrimshaw piece that's fossil mamoth ivory and even those are not allowed on most online selling sites these days.

Nice yardsale score.

 

[Mintberrycrunch]

I'd think you could get maybe $175 - $250 out of it, if you could pull off an online sale. I see they still sell the real stuff by playing ignorant and listing it as faux ivory carving and bone ivory carvings. I have this 100 + year old, carved ivory lotus flower brooch from China I'd like to unload online, as that's how I'd get the most out of it I believe, but I'm to honest to play stupid, so maybe I'll find someone who would appreciate it and take it as trade for something I could sell legally online. Also I have a ivory scrimshaw piece that's fossil mamoth ivory and even those are not allowed on most online selling sites these days.

Nice yardsale score.

Thanks for the info I'm not going to try and sell it I was just curious. That brooch is beautiful. The other day I started looking into mammoth ivory I'd really like to get a small carved something but it's pretty pricey stuff. I might have to find a tusk myself they were in Michigan.

 

[tamrock]

Thanks for the info I'm not going to try and sell it I was just curious. That brooch is beautiful. The other day I started looking into mammoth ivory I'd really like to get a small carved something but it's pretty pricey stuff. I might have to find a tusk myself they were in Michigan.

They do find old mammoth bones and ivory in alluvium gravel pits and placer gold deposits from time to time. I watched a show on mammoth ivory hunters in Russia. I think the show was called expedition unknown? They all went way out in the tundra permafrost country of Siberia, looking for em. Also some Asian scientist go looking for mammoth DNA, they really want to bring the beast back to life is their mission. This is the piece I have I got in a flea market for 12 bucks I think I paid?. I was going to post it and see if anyone could figure out the signature on it, but never did til now, so maybe someone could shed some light on who did it. I do believe it was an artist in Russia that did the scrimshaw on it, but that's just a hunch I have. It's very dense and as heavy a rock that be of the same size.

 

[huntsman53]

Tamrock... Both pieces are beautiful. You might contact these folks if you want to sell or they may be able to identify the signature! Could the signature possibly be Icelandic or Norwegian?

Antique Scrimshaw, Nautical Antiques & Whaling Antiques, Marine Art

I have a 1980's to early 1990's made Native American Indian Peace Pipe made by one or more Cherokee Indians. It is made using Deer Antlers, Bird Feathers...some of which may be from Hawks and using the head with fangs and much of the body of a Diamond Back Rattlesnake. It came out of a Storage Unit when the contents went up for auction for non-payment of rent, so there is no documentation on it and I cannot sell it.


Frank

 

[Mintberrycrunch]

Tamrock... Both pieces are beautiful. You might contact these folks if you want to sell or they may be able to identify the signature! Could the signature possibly be Icelandic or Norwegian?

Antique Scrimshaw, Nautical Antiques & Whaling Antiques, Marine Art

I have a 1980's to early 1990's made Native American Indian Peace Pipe made by one or more Cherokee Indians. It is made using Deer Antlers, Bird Feathers...some of which may be from Hawks and using the head with fangs and much of the body of a Diamond Back Rattlesnake. It came out of a Storage Unit when the contents went up for auction for non-payment of rent, so there is no documentation on it and I cannot sell it.


Frank

Why can't you sell it if it's not made from ivory? Just curious

 

[huntsman53]

Why can't you sell it if it's not made from ivory? Just curious

If an item is made from any part of an animal, bird, snake or reptile that is protected under the Laws at the link below, then you cannot sell, buy, trade or barter with the item whatsoever without proper documentation (i.e. when it was made, where it was made, who it was made by). Even with the documentation, some items must have been made prior to the Laws (at the link below) being enacted or show that it falls within a specific category making it legal to sell, buy, trade or barter. To sell, buy, trade or barter these items without the proper documentation, you risk arrest, confiscation of all associated items, fines and/or imprisonment.

Animal Parts Laws | The Green Wolf


Frank

 

[Mintberrycrunch]

If an item is made from any part of an animal, bird, snake or reptile that is protected under the Laws at the link below, then you cannot sell, buy, trade or barter with the item whatsoever without proper documentation (i.e. when it was made, where it was made, who it was made by). Even with the documentation, some items must have been made prior to the Laws (at the link below) being enacted or show that it falls within a specific category making it legal to sell, buy, trade or barter. To sell, buy, trade or barter these items without the proper documentation, you risk arrest, confiscation of all associated items, fines and/or imprisonment.

Animal Parts Laws | The Green Wolf


Frank

I'll check out that link tonight but which one of those animals is protected so i know for in the future

 

[gunsil]

Tamrock, I do not think your piece is very old. The scrimshanding is very low quality work sorry to say, and definitely not whaling era quality or modern American quality. Looks like Asian work to me. I love this stuff, and have been to the whaling museum in New Bedford, MA and studied a lot of old scrimshaw and see the work of modern American scrimshanders at gun and knife shows. I'll be passing through your part of the world around the end of the week, going from Wickenburg, AZ to Grand Junction, CO, and then later next week across I-70 back to St Louis, then to my sister's in OH and finally back home to NY. I hope to see a lot of the great vistas you show in your photos of the area!!

 

[tamrock]

Tamrock, I do not think your piece is very old. The scrimshanding is very low quality work sorry to say, and definitely not whaling era quality or modern American quality. Looks like Asian work to me. I love this stuff, and have been to the whaling museum in New Bedford, MA and studied a lot of old scrimshaw and see the work of modern American scrimshanders at gun and knife shows. I'll be passing through your part of the world around the end of the week, going from Wickenburg, AZ to Grand Junction, CO, and then later next week across I-70 back to St Louis, then to my sister's in OH and finally back home to NY. I hope to see a lot of the great vistas you show in your photos of the area!!

I never did think the scrimshaw was all that old. Frank provided a link that had a small piece with a signature and image that was just about spot on to this one. I'd have to look at the pm again to see what name that artist was. I'm not sure what this ivory came from either and I'm only thinking fossil mamoth, based on some fragments I saw for sale in a Moab Utah rock shop. It could be old ivory from the remains of a dead walrus that washed ashore long ago for all I know.?

Indeed you will definitely enjoy the scenery of this part of the country. Keep your eyes on the road please. Texting pot heads don't often stay between the lines or react to dangerous road conditions quickly.

 

[tamrock]

Gunsil, I was thinking here, as I'm out on the road myself now. To me my favorite way to Grand Junction to where your at is hitting I-17 to Flagstaff. Some good antique shops and pawn shops there. From there take 89 north and see the little community of Cameron. Very high-end and expensive Native American art is found there, but prices are more the I'll ever give. It's just a cool place. From Cameron head to AZ 160 Tuba City way. Not a lot on that stretch of 160 as it's all reservation country, but there are interesting places for a quick stop like the burger burger King in Kayenta and the display of the Navajo code talkers. From Kayenta take 163 and be blown away by the veiws of the monument valley and head to Mexican hat and on to 191Bluff in Utah. Run 191 all the way to Moab and stop at the rock shop on the north end of Moab. You must head to Utah I-70 via UT hwy 128 as it's just to beautiful a drive to describe. Who knows you may just see one of those California Condors said to be in that area as they relocated some there in effort for their survival. Then head to I-70 east and to the legal speed limit of 80 mph, but don't forget to take it down to 75 at the Colorado border. You'll be a changed man by following the path I just described.

 

[huntsman53]

Tamrock, I do not think your piece is very old. The scrimshanding is very low quality work sorry to say, and definitely not whaling era quality or modern American quality. Looks like Asian work to me. I love this stuff, and have been to the whaling museum in New Bedford, MA and studied a lot of old scrimshaw and see the work of modern American scrimshanders at gun and knife shows. I'll be passing through your part of the world around the end of the week, going from Wickenburg, AZ to Grand Junction, CO, and then later next week across I-70 back to St Louis, then to my sister's in OH and finally back home to NY. I hope to see a lot of the great vistas you show in your photos of the area!!

As a follow up to Tamrock's reply to you, I noted in PM's that it could possibly be Peter LaJoie (who has since passed on) but also could be his' wife, Susan or daughter Bridgette. Possibly one of the latter two based on your statement!


Frank

 

[huntsman53]

I'll check out that link tonight but which one of those animals is protected so i know for in the future

You will have to check out the links and research the other Laws noted to find out. They also do not note in most of these, that any animal, bird or reptile that is illegal to hunt, then you generally cannot possess, sell, buy, trade or barter any parts of them. And to make it more interesting, if you harvest a specific animal, bird, or reptile in a state where it is legal, you must have proper documentation before traveling through and/or taking any part of to a state (maybe your home state) where hunting the same is illegal.


Frank

 

[gunsil]

Gunsil, I was thinking here, as I'm out on the road myself now. To me my favorite way to Grand Junction to where your at is hitting I-17 to Flagstaff. Some good antique shops and pawn shops there. From there take 89 north and see the little community of Cameron. Very high-end and expensive Native American art is found there, but prices are more the I'll ever give. It's just a cool place. From Cameron head to AZ 160 Tuba City way. Not a lot on that stretch of 160 as it's all reservation country, but there are interesting places for a quick stop like the burger burger King in Kayenta and the display of the Navajo code talkers. From Kayenta take 163 and be blown away by the veiws of the monument valley and head to Mexican hat and on to 191Bluff in Utah. Run 191 all the way to Moab and stop at the rock shop on the north end of Moab. You must head to Utah I-70 via UT hwy 128 as it's just to beautiful a drive to describe. Who knows you may just see one of those California Condors said to be in that area as they relocated some there in effort for their survival. Then head to I-70 east and to the legal speed limit of 80 mph, but don't forget to take it down to 75 at the Colorado border. You'll be a changed man by following the path I just described.

Thank you so much!! My plan of travel to Grand Junction is pretty much as you recommend, but I will not have a lot of time to spend along the way. I have a friend I will stay with in GJ for a few days before I head back east. I hope to get in some good sightseeing in that area and will have a local to show me the way, but much of the trip east will be to make St Louis in two days weather permitting. I can take my time and hole up anyplace necessary if the weather gets nasty, so I don't worry about time or weather, I just want to be in St Louis for a knife show on the 28th, if I don't make it it won't matter much. I am in an Audi 4X4 so it goes well in any weather but I have no need to push it hard. I have been to a lot of national parks and states in the past, but never in CO except to change planes. I have been to Bryce, Zion, and Arches, but not Moab or Monument Valley. Looking forward to seeing your end of the world!