K.G.C. in Colorado?

[L.C. BAKER]

"Not trying to hijack your thread L.C. Baker, there just isn't a lot of KGC/Colorado conversations out there and I am around internet service again for a couple days and just wanted to share some thoughts and a couple names for lines of research, in case you had not heard of them."

When I can spill the beans completely, ()there will be no doubt that the K.G.C. was in Colorado. There was more than one Knight that traveled to the state of Colorado and influenced it greatly. They had their hands in things there that took place up to 1902 and beyond. The caliber of these Colorado Knights of the Golden Circle required the utmost secrecy and discretion. Their membership to the K.G.C. would have for certain meant charges of treason against them if it had been discovered.
L.C. Baker

 

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[desertmoons]

Interesting. I've often wondered the REAL reason the confederates made a run for Colorado, through New mexico. They surely were understaffed for such an endeavor and the supply line bears thinking about. Their trail of conquests meant to me they would need to leave men along the way to oversee the conquered towns. Fewer and fewer left by the time they got to their stated goal. Something just seems off to me in the whole scenario.

Anyway the photo i was referring to was this one. To me I see "Spanish" "ancient' and other influence. In the lower right of the cropped pic there may be symbols, numbers or letters, a bit jumbled, or they could simply be natural. If you subscribe to the idea that markings must be incised,,it likely they will not look like anything. Come to think of it, they are likely Spinach as the sun is involved and they would come out more nicely at a different time of day. Or it could just be pixelation. Anyway the numbers seemed odd to me for spanish.

The rest of that formation well...lol i do tend toward reading the fluff. I see horses, bears people , birds, triangular pointers..all the usual suspects.

Overall it looks like a horse trail to your left, probably left around that hill, and to the right just possibly a trail leading to a mineral resource of some sort. I would not know a sign that indicates "look for a hoyo." Possibly the trail left around that hill will be relatively flat, or go through a canyon.

To me the linear cracks upper left side of the hill that form sort of a cross in your original picture, not posted here, seem solid and I would ponder those cracks. There is also a nice carved line on the horse which is likely a trail map of sorts or it can have a very local meaning. That too seems rather concrete. So I see some basic linear type carvings on bearcavein hill. And lot of other stuff that is less defined.

The thing is, there are bits and pieces that do not seem to fit completely into the Spanish , or ancient categories i have in my mind. That is why i say there seems to be some outside influence.

Anyway you have piqued my curiosity as to something much older. If along the way you find boats carved into walls..would be interested to know that. The ones with a curved bow are particularly of interest. But other large canoes are good to. They might have 1 person standing at the stern or their may be several or many people in them.

The only kgc thing i know about colorado was that tidbit I posted somewhere on tnet about a Native getting tossed in jail. Why? Because a descendant of Jesse james made an agreement with the native to recover one of the James stashes. Then the Native reneged or moved it. The descendant took him to court and the judge tossed him in jail. That was in colorado..and surprised me as i did not think old jj got up that way.


As a known area of mineral wealth I am sure a lot of jockeying has gone on. Thanks again to both of you for a intelligent ,polite thread.

Check lower right area for symbols numbers.


Horse head below

 

[Springfield]

... The thing is, there are bits and pieces that do not seem to fit completely into the Spanish , or ancient categories i have in my mind. That is why i say there seems to be some outside influence...

'Influence' - this is the key to your confusion. You smacked the nail squarely on its head.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

L.C.Baker:
Reading Bob Brewer's book would be a good place to start. Some folks don't like his book.....others do. He wrote tht the KGC use the turtle, snake, skull, and heart as some of their main signs. The crescent is used by them, too.

Was Pike's Peak named for Albert Pike? I don't remember if that is so, but if it is, Albert Pike was the highest ranking person in the Scottish Rites group and proported to be the top knocker in the KGC. Check for any mention of his name in the local records.

Pike's Peak was named for explorer Z. Pike (Pike's Expedition).

 

[L.C. BAKER]

I thought he meant the K.G.C. may have added their own deal to it.....

 

[Springfield]

Are you suggesting desertmoons sees something because he is influenced to do so, something that may not be there (stemming from 'influenced' pareidolia), or are you suggesting that desertmoons is seeing something, a human made mark, that has been worked over, etc., that the outside influence is an influence on an 'original' mark?

I'm saying that many petroglyphs are from relatively recent times and have been styled to resemble work from older cultures, such as Ameridian, Spanish, etc.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Thanks for clearing that up for us.
Baker

 

[Springfield]

Just to pry a bit further, which of course you do not have to entertain, I assume you include the shaping of rock/building of rock monuments in this?

I think a lot of us here are aware of the theory you put forth concerning this; namely that at one or multiple times in the past, a group or groups has gone around the southwest, changing/adding things. In addition, the aforementioned parties have also done work to implant, into the public mind, the concept of caches of gold left all over the place - have indeed instigated many to go walking around looking for buried treasure.

I have not, however, seen much where you go into detail as to the 'why' of all of this. I ordered your book, and am stuck, immobile, for a couple days longer than I planned and won't be heading out again until thurs, so I shall have it with me, with a few others, on my next 4-8 week outing. Plenty of time to read and digest it.

I respect your rights to control your release of information, and if you cover it in the book, fair enough and the curious can purchase said book and read for themselves. But if you don't, you must have some theory as to the why's behind the manipulation. Care to share them if they are not covered in your book?

The question of my original post, Springfield, was whether or not that was a 'general' statement on such things, or if you too, saw something in that pic, as did desertmoons.

Fair questions.

Monuments. Constructed monuments (cairns, etc.) are, IMO, almost all built for purposes other than 'treasure clues': mining claim corners, trail markers by hikers, hunters, Indians, forest service people, pioneers, hippies, cowboys, surveyors, timber cruisers, tree thinners, pranksters, etc. Very few rocks are 'shaped', IMO. Many look like things - it's a natural phenomenon, their shapes recognizable by people in widely ranging degrees. Some shapes are very striking, recognized by everyone. These can be used as landmarks, and have been throughout history. Are these 'treasure markers'? Well, maybe in a few cases.

Your 2nd Paragraph. A fair summary of my working belief model, more or less.

Why. A great question - the most important part of all of it, IMO. The answer? I don't know - I'd like to to satisfy my curiosity. Like a lot of other folks, I've turned up some intriguing circumstantial evidence, but no smoking gun. There are a number of speculations, but none that satisfies most inquirers. There's obviously a well-organized conspiracy behind it all.

Photos. No, I didn't see anything particularly worth commenting on about any of those rocks. Baker's might be useful, I guess, but IMO only if directly tied into other things he didn't reveal. So that's a 'qualified maybe' at best. Your photos are merely rocks, IMO. Do you have any idea how many thousands of 'hoyos' there are in the West? They can't all be the King's signs - in fact, maybe none of them are. I liked that big cairn of yours. There's a bunch of similar ones in Utah. Some say they're 'treasure markers', some say that Basque sheepherders built them. Desertmoons rocks are just rocks, IMO.

As always, I reserve the right to be mistaken in all my opinions.

 

[Pinwheel]

Hello everyone. Springfield i respect your opinion. I know your opinion is formed by looking at the solid facts where monuments are concerned. Any good investigator follows the evidence. He does not force the evidence to fit his theories. I am familiar with the Whoot Owl trail. I also have formed the opinion that the KGC did not create the trail but borrowed the system from the parent group. I mean, we have all heard the stories of a lost mine in a certain area. When Intrest dies, about every 40 to 50 years a Spainard or Mexican will show up with a map looking for the lost mine or cache. He will usally uncover some new or lost signs to the site and when intrest is revived he disapears. This is What Outlaws called the Whoot owl trail. It is not chiseled in stone but in local legends and newspaper articles about the search. The Stories may be altogeather false or could have a foundation in something real like a mine or casche site. This local lore is just as important as the signs that lead you around looking for the next clue. Just like the monuments that have either been altered or added to through the years. There are no questions in my mind that this is the work of the parent group. My Question is Why? Is this all just fuel for the treasure hunting industry. Well may be it is a by product of the activity, but surely it is not the cause. Springfield if you have an opinion on this activity I would sure love to hear it.

many thanks
Pinwheel

 

[Springfield]

Hello everyone. Springfield i respect your opinion. I know your opinion is formed by looking at the solid facts where monuments are concerned. Any good investigator follows the evidence. He does not force the evidence to fit his theories. I am familiar with the Whoot Owl trail. I also have formed the opinion that the KGC did not create the trail but borrowed the system from the parent group. I mean, we have all heard the stories of a lost mine in a certain area. When Intrest dies, about every 40 to 50 years a Spainard or Mexican will show up with a map looking for the lost mine or cache. He will usally uncover some new or lost signs to the site and when intrest is revived he disapears. This is What Outlaws called the Whoot owl trail. It is not chiseled in stone but in local legends and newspaper articles about the search. The Stories may be altogeather false or could have a foundation in something real like a mine or casche site. This local lore is just as important as the signs that lead you around looking for the next clue. Just like the monuments that have either been altered or added to through the years. There are no questions in my mind that this is the work of the parent group. My Question is Why? Is this all just fuel for the treasure hunting industry. Well may be it is a by product of the activity, but surely it is not the cause. Springfield if you have an opinion on this activity I would sure love to hear it.

many thanks
Pinwheel

Pinwheel, I agree with what you've said. Your 'Hoot Owl Trail' has many examples - in fact, I'm very familiar with one 'Mexican with a map' myself. You're also correct that the treasure hunting industry has grown and profited greatly since many of these stories have come to light, but as you say, this is just a reaction, not the cause. I can't answer your 'why?' question - I wish I could. I guess we're all bozos on this bus.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Pinwheel, I agree with what you've said. Your 'Hoot Owl Trail' has many examples - in fact, I'm very familiar with one 'Mexican with a map' myself. You're also correct that the treasure hunting industry has grown and profited greatly since many of these stories have come to light, but as you say, this is just a reaction, not the cause. I can't answer your 'why?' question - I wish I could. I guess we're all bozos on this bus.

How do I get a sponsor to loan me a GPR unit??LOL
L.C.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

I have been reading your posts and I am humbled by your mutual respect for one another. I can honestly tell you both that I will never look at rocks the same...It does give me the feeling that I try to make something out of nothing sometimes, but I am aware of what to look for so I guess I am always reaching a little bit to make it work. From what I have seen on here and with my own two eyes, you can tell when someone is trying to stretch it to fit. Some rocks by design or otherwise look like signs. Now if someone in the past chose to use them as a sign, thats the MILLION DOLLAR question!
L.C. Baker

 

[Pinwheel]

Hello L.C. I am sure you are aware of the fact, that there is a lot of difference between a sign and a symbol. How ever I will try to ring this bell again. A sign only stands for 1 thing or 1 Ideal. Like a stop sign means you need to stop. A symbol on the other hand implies many different things, principals, or ideals. A basic symbol has at least 3 levels or possible interpretations. Each level is more conceiled than the last. some of the more complicated symbols have as many as 9 and most or all of the 9 levels are hidden from the profane. Like us. It is impossible to interpret a symbol unless it is viewed in it proper context. And Then you have to know all the possible meanings. The Spanish were masters at this, but they had an allusion of rules to follow. The KGC took it to a whole new level. They were not concerned with any rules. I am sure you already knew all of that, I was just beating a dead horse.

Pinwheel

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Hello L.C. I am sure you are aware of the fact, that there is a lot of difference between a sign and a symbol. How ever I will try to ring this bell again. A sign only stands for 1 thing or 1 Ideal. Like a stop sign means you need to stop. A symbol on the other hand implies many different things, principals, or ideals. A basic symbol has at least 3 levels or possible interpretations. Each level is more conceiled than the last. some of the more complicated symbols have as many as 9 and most or all of the 9 levels are hidden from the profane. Like us. It is impossible to interpret a symbol unless it is viewed in it proper context. And Then you have to know all the possible meanings. The Spanish were masters at this, but they had an allusion of rules to follow. The KGC took it to a whole new level. They were not concerned with any rules. I am sure you already knew all of that, I was just beating a dead horse.

Pinwheel

It is truely an art to decipher the K.G.C. and Spanish symbols. It is a game of trial and error for the hunter. In a way,the more you know about them, the harder they are to figure out! Thanks for your input and help on this subject and others. There are no dead horses to whip in this game, it pays to keep all of your information fresh, so you are able to recall it. At least at my age anyhow!
L.C. Baker

 

[desertmoons]

Desertmoons rocks are just rocks, IMO.

Springfield

Over time I am coming around to your way of thinking in a couple of aspects involving the who, what. why. and when of what is going on. Looking at trails in the other hemisphere was an eye opener for me.

But I still like my Spanish morphing rocks! They seem to point the way to interesting things. Well meaning people can disagree

Anyway maybe it is just all about Barkely..

 

[Springfield]

...

Anyway maybe it is just all about Barkely..

View attachment 878114

Hmm. My dog Farley has an uncanny talent for finding Indian ruins, artifacts, old mines and other things when I take him on hikes. Here's some petroglyphs he found for me. I wonder ...

 

[L.C. BAKER]

There is a thread on t-net about training your dog to find gold. I got a kick out of it!
L.C.

 

[Shortstack]

There is a thread on t-net about training your dog to find gold. I got a kick out of it!
L.C.

There was a self-published book titled, Money Dog, several years ago that explained how to train a dog to find money. Mainly paper money. The author gave suggestions as to the best dog breeds to consider AND the techniques for training them. If dogs are being trained today to find weapons, ammo, explosives, etc. then training one to find gold would be basically simple. It would take some time and some good samples of gold in different matrices to get it accomplished. A small gold ingot would help also, for searches for caches of those little beauties.

You must start with a puppy, not a full grown dog, and make it all a game.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

We will have to give it a shot. I think a blood hound might work. Just think how much you could sell his pups for if they were proven cache hunters!$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[rangler]

trackers,
members of the mason society today are not priveledged to the information of old...only the very top dog, grand phuba
dudes know anything remotely about the old days of mason intrigues..even in the beginning of the clan..their were secular and stone cutter masons...today their are only the secular, ritualistic ordinary masons..so that avenue will be a blind trail...make
make no doubt about it the insider masons are heavily involved in treasure recovery...thanks to them making unauthorized maps of the areas where they were employed to carve stone into lifelike forms or abstract whichever was needed to manufacturer monuments for the Jessies...today there income from recovered quints runs over a million dollars per year..
I witnessed a mason work for three years - kinda undercover - to break the code of monuments on this old and ancient precious metals area...he failed so in his desperation and of course on orders from on high, he smashed,, chiseled and blew the moument boulders off the cliff edge with primer cord..to the valley far below...a felony in my mind..that this arogant b*stard could do such a thing..well the joke is on him , because he died the same day of heart failure..when he looked forward to his new promotion within the clan..and what is more..that property is now in the hands of my long time friends and we will make the recovery AND we will post the pics of the goodies, pay the tax on them and make a million dollars with the publication made available to the public..karma does work in mysterious ways indeed..
oro for the righteous
rangler
if masons come sniffing around your site, dont trust them..they will destroy the monuments and signs,marks ect..a citizens arrest will come the next time they try that trick on me and my friends.

oh an I urge you to photo all marks, signs and monuments in your area..as these guys will come and do their dirty work while you sleep..thank goodness all three of us took cameras on a couple times every month and photoed the complete site over and over
again..so we have the evidence of his destruction but more importantly the record of the marks, signs and symbols that helped us break the code and will lead to the recovery~! ha!
no oro for the bad guys...
rangler

ps no offence to the modern ritualistic masons who in the rank and file do some awesome service to the communities all over the usa.. the children's burn center for just one example.

[ I am talking about the insider top dogs who rummage thru their old maps of sites and show up there, trying to break the code...and destroy the site whether or not they make a recovery. shameless