KGC and freemasons the same thing???

[Mr.Jody]

Are these the same group or no?Reason I ask,friend of mine has a book.Its older than dirt,said the paper is not like the paper used in todays world.Its either freemason or KGC(the book).It has to be one of the first few "books" ever made...Just wondering if it may have any clues in it??
I will not say who the book "use" to belong to....
i HAVE NOT SEEN THE BOOK YET....

 

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[Mr.Jody]

I was just wondering if the book may hold some clues..or am I dreaming...LOL

 

[Mr.Jody]

Thanks SWR...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Re: KGC and Freemasons the same thing

NAW... not da same. Am a 32nd SR, and we DO have KGC... Knight of the Grand Cross, in the Southern Jurisdiction; NOT related to Knights of the Golden Circle. Coffee?

 

[Mr.Jody]

 

[cccalco]

Are these the same group or no?Reason I ask,friend of mine has a book.Its older than dirt,said the paper is not like the paper used in todays world.Its either freemason or KGC(the book).It has to be one of the first few "books" ever made...Just wondering if it may have any clues in it??
I will not say who the book "use" to belong to....
i HAVE NOT SEEN THE BOOK YET

I am not asking you to give away any information that the book may contain, in fact you say have not even seen the book yet, so here are some questions you need to ask your friend. Look on the flyleaf (if the book has one) and look for the copyright date, or author or publishing house. These are all found in most books published in the last 200 years but if this book is self published it may have just been taken to a local printer and printed for only a small group of readers. Secondly look at the over all content of the book. Is it informational or is it a book of ritual typical of any one of a number of fraternal orders. I would bet that with just a little more info almost anyone here could give you info on the books origin.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Re: KGC and Freemasons the same thing

Agree with ccc; sounds like a "monitor" or something; I have some 1866 + "ritual books"... NOT of the KGC. You CAN get a book on rituals of KGC, as an "exposure".

 

[Mr.Jody]

Yea,I will do all that...Let ya know...I'll be putting my eyes on it for sure..

 

[Mr.Jody]

the date in the book is 1847-1864.....more later..

 

[Rebel - KGC]

And... ?

 

[uthunter]

Do a search for the title and author at openlibrary.org, google books, loc.gov, even google itself may reveal a lot about the book.

And you won't have to worry about giving out too much information, or worry about saying who owned it.

Plus the above sites are a good starting point in your search for old books.

 

[Lanny in AB]

Interesting topic--thanks!

All the best,

Lanny

 

[Mr.Jody]

Sorry for no update, Forgot I put this here..will get more info on this . . .

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Re: KGC and Freemasons the same thing

It DOES happen... hope you find it!

 

[Kosh]

I am a Master Mason from NY and I can assure you that the Masons had/have nothing to do with either the KGC (or the KKK, what the KGC later devolved into).

I have heard these things said for years and frankly there is no truth to them. I know many high ranking members of the Grand Lodge and have asked them these very questions, all to which were answered the same as I have above.

Kosh

 

[Hal Croves]

Mr. Jody,
This is a fascinating question. I think that the confusion comes from the fact that Freemasonry is not one cohesive group. There seems to be several splinter groups that have evolved over time... two major groups and based on the individual country, perhaps smaller organizations that reflect those countries needs and traditions. From what I have put together, the KGC (Knights of the Golden Circle) was absolutely a "Masonic" organization. But I don't think that it would be fair to say that all Freemasons held the same belief system. The ultimate goal of this KGC is well documented and for the most part it was never reached... that great circle of states and their slave based economies with Havana at the center. The KKK did grow out of the KGC, but again it would be unfair to Freemasons to group them all together.

I don't doubt Kosh's sincerity, however the historical record tells a much different story. And as a Master Mason he would not necessarily be entitled to the secrets held by "high ranking members of the Grand Lodge". Kosh, no disrespect intended. The great thing about Freemasonry is that it provides a secure way to communicate confidential information across distance and time.

 

[Walker Colt]

In the study done in Texas, the results were out of the 90 known Texas members of the KGC taken from newspapers, letters and other sources and taking that list to the Grand Lodge of Texas and researching the Lodge Returns from the 1850s and 60s, only 31 were masons. They definitely had masonic influences such as in their degrees but it was not masonic.

 

[Hal Croves]

Walker Colt,
"They definitely had masonic influences such as in their degrees but it was not masonic."

Forgive me for jumping in here, however I am struggling to understand exactly how you came to this conclusion. Clement Laird Vallandigham, an attorney and one of the most influential leaders of the Order of the Sons of Liberty (KGC reorganized) was given full Masonic burial rites after he accidentally shot himself. I would suggest that there was more than just Masonic "influences" involved. Also the question of Albert Pike's role in the founding of the KGC remains unanswered. Please, perhaps you can better explain your reasoning.

Klement, Frank. L. The Limits ofDissent: Clement L. Vallandigham and the Civil War. Lexington, Ky.:University of Kentucky Press, 1970.

"Proceedings of a Military Commission Convened in Cincinnati, May 6, 1863." Roll 273, National Archives Microfilm Publication M345, Union Provost Marshal's File, One Name Papers RE: Citizens.

Vallandigham, Clement L. Record of Hon. C. L. Vallandigham on Abolition, the Union and the Civil W17ar. Columbus, Ohio: J. Walters & Co., 1863.

Vallandigham, James. A Life of Clement L. Vallandigham. Baltimore: Turnbull Brothers, 1872.

 

[Red Heeler]

An Oligarchy Mr. Jody. Btw, your avatar, makes me think you are my kinda folk. Hit me up if you reach the colorful state of Colorado. We may find nuthin' but it will be fun. There are several secret societies. Several Families. They compete amongst themselves. For control over us. We are the PROFANE. You and me buddy.

Is the KGC the same thing as the Masons? According to Kosh ... No. But he is ONLY a Master Mason.. 3rd degree. OUt of 32 or 33. The first Third Party in the US was teh Anti-Mason Party. What does that tell you?

Yea, buddy, it is all related. Freemansonry, KGC, Monarchy of Europe, the Vatican, etc. They know things we don't and haven't yet told Kosh. They have been battling for you and me for centuries. Keeping history hidden and denying us the truth.

Kosh, you remind me of being a lad in first grade in Catholic School. Keep telling yourself you knowit all...

 

[Walker Colt]

The Grand Lodge of Texas is the highest authority of Masonry in Texas, it is over the blue lodges, Scottish and York Rite Masonry in Texas. To be a member of a masonic group such as the Scottish and York Rites you must be a 3rd degree Master Mason in a Blue Lodge. If the KGC were masonic they would have to answer to the Grand Lodge and all members would have to be Master Masons before starting the KGC degrees. Every lodge is required to submit a return to the Grand Lodge every year which includes a membership roll and what degree each member holds and who has died or hasn't paid their dues. Out of the 90 KGC members we know of only 31 were listed in the membership rolls at the Grand Lodge. Thats how masonry works in Texas, if they were calling themselves masons they wouldnt have been recognized as such and considered clandestine and no true mason could affiliate with them without breaking their obligation resulting in suspension.