Large Livery Button with Griffin (Need an ID Please)

[Erik in NJ]

This was found in a wheat stubble field (man that stuff is tough to detect in!) in Somerset while detecting with my friend Geoff the Chef. He spotted the griffin and said it was a livery button. I'm not sure if you can see the griffin in these scans...let me know and I will try to outline it. Below the griffin is a horizontal line across the button. Anyone know what button this is or the age? Again, I was disappointed to not unearth any hammered coins, but this was one of my favorite finds of the day. We had a great day regardless and I am in his debt for sharing some of his fields with me. Best find of the day was my new friendship that was formed that day!

Please let me know if you recommend any additional cleaning. Thanks!

 

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[A/CMan]

Congrats on a spectacular find ! I've never found a hammered coin yet, and I've been doing this for 1 score and 3 years, I can't see the lines but my eyes aren't the best, AC

 

[CRUSADER]

I think this was in a fire, it was fairly common to burn clothes on fields & mix in the 'shoddy' & ashes. Was the soil quite heavy, clay?
If the soil was light sand, another possibility was that it was in a stubble fire years after it was lost, but during the period when they were aloud to set fire to the fields.

Livery buttons do span most of the 19th C, therefore without a clear backmark it would be pure guess work, as the varieties seem to be almost endless.

It also looks a little like a Phoenix, & the bar/band at the base of the image is typical of a Livery, look at 'Livery Buttons' on google images.

If it had some of its guilding, I would have suggested lemon juice, but I think you maybe in danger of losing detail if you try & clean.

 

[Erik in NJ]

Hi Crusader,

Yes, the soil in this field in Somerset was like heavy clay...it would stick right to your shovel. The wheat stubble was a first for me and I have to say made things quite challenging to say the least! Chef did find half a hammered coin, but despite high hopes it was not going to be a hammered day for me. I did find this large button, a couple of interesting smaller buttons (one stamped with a local merchant), and a not old, but interesting RAF Comfort Committee brooch which I'll post later. Again, the scan makes it look worse, so I'll try to outline what I can see later in Paint. The back is very corroded, but I can see a letter or two, I might take a tooth pick to it to try and lift some of the corrosion...maybe we can get some more detail. Had the stubble not been there, I think this would have been a very different day! Regardless spending the day with Geoff the Chef was great and having a few pints afterwards at the local pub and talking was the best part of the day! I was grateful to make a new friend.

I think this was in a fire, it was fairly common to burn clothes on fields & mix in the 'shoddy' & ashes. Was the soil quite heavy, clay?
If the soil was light sand, another possibility was that it was in a stubble fire years after it was lost, but during the period when they were aloud to set fire to the fields.

Livery buttons do span most of the 19th C, therefore without a clear backmark it would be pure guess work, as the varieties seem to be almost endless.

It also looks a little like a Phoenix, & the bar/band at the base of the image is typical of a Livery, look at 'Livery Buttons' on google images.

If it had some of its guilding, I would have suggested lemon juice, but I think you maybe in danger of losing detail if you try & clean.

 

[Erik in NJ]

Thanks AC--wish it were in slightly better condition, but the griffin is more clear in person. I appreciate your kind words!

Congrats on a spectacular find ! I've never found a hammered coin yet, and I've been doing this for 1 score and 3 years, I can't see the lines but my eyes aren't the best, AC

 

[oldsalty19]

 

[A/CMan]

One score is 20 years, this is all I'm teaching for today! Lol !

 

[CRUSADER]

Hi Crusader,

Yes, the soil in this field in Somerset was like heavy clay...it would stick right to your shovel. The wheat stubble was a first for me and I have to say made things quite challenging to say the least! Chef did find half a hammered coin, but despite high hopes it was not going to be a hammered day for me. I did find this large button, a couple of interesting smaller buttons (one stamped with a local merchant), and a not old, but interesting RAF Comfort Committee brooch which I'll post later. Again, the scan makes it look worse, so I'll try to outline what I can see later in Paint. The back is very corroded, but I can see a letter or two, I might take a tooth pick to it to try and lift some of the corrosion...maybe we can get some more detail. Had the stubble not been there, I think this would have been a very different day! Regardless spending the day with Geoff the Chef was great and having a few pints afterwards at the local pub and talking was the best part of the day! I was grateful to make a new friend.

Yes Wheat stubble is the worst to work in, if you don't count Oilseed Rape/Beans, you are right, many things would have been missed & it slows you down. We generally only do the tyre tracks to give us a feel of the field & then do it again when ploughed & rolled.