Lead Object With Writing, No Idea What It Is.

[Digger62918]

Went out detecting with a buddy today at a site that dates back to the mid 1800's. He found this cool relic but we have no idea what it is. Is is made of lead and has a large letter M With a line and 39 below it. Does anyone have ANY information on this object? Your help and thoughts are greatly appreciated!

 

[Silver Searcher]

Why don't we just call them Lead seals like the UKF Data Base doe's, which covers Bag, Bale and Coth Seal here's 22 pages of them for you all to look through

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/showcat.php?cat=131

SS

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I am not trying to say I am right. I
don't know.

I just used a commonly used term
and got called on it.

Any brighter minds are welcomed, by
me, to chime in.

Happy Huntin,

Tabdog

Why don't we just call them Lead seals like the UKF Data Base doe's, which covers Bag, Bale and Coth Seal here's 22 pages of them for you all to look through

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/showcat.php?cat=131

SS

I think the point you and Tabdog are missing is that whatever you want to call them is fine with me. The point is that none of the 22 pages of bag, bale and cloth lead seals have a wire. The lead seal posted at the top of the page is the only one that counts and its hard to be sure without a pic of the back but I can see remains of a rusted wire. I hope I am not upsetting anybody, just trying to make the proper ID. IMO its very possible to be a meter tag. 8)


ADDED: I guess its also possible to be a post 1857 "bale" tag. But nothing presented proves it wasnt used on a meter. Im not calling you Tabdog on your use of the word bale. Im calling you on your opinion that it cannot be a meter tag. If you can present evidence otherwise would be great as I am always willing to learn. 8)

That is a bale seal.

They only look like the meter seals.

They stopped using bale seals in the
mid 1800's. That was before gas and
elec.

Here is one I found,

They identified trade goods in transit.

Happy Huntin,

Tabdog

If it has wire, its most likely post-1857 not pre-1850's. Im not saying Im right. Im just saying that IMO we cannot rule out meter tag.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

A funny thing about bale seals.

For hundreds of years, the Europeans used bale seals.
They made tens of thousands of kinds. Some even had
string or wire in them.

An American comes along in the 1800's and invents the
bale seal. But, he does not call it a bale seal,,,,

Of course not. He's gettin a patent. He don't want to
look like a copy cat!!!!


Happy Huntin,

Tabdog

Im just reading this now, sorry. Is this true? You are saying that metal wire lead seals found in the USA could be pre date 1850 before it was patented? OK great. Like I said I am always willing to learn. But how can you be so sure that its not a meter seal?



Its great that we can discuss this issue without getting upset. Any evidence would be great.
I think we need more pics of the item at the top of the page..

 

[Silver Searcher]

I am not trying to say I am right. I
don't know.

I just used a commonly used term
and got called on it.

Any brighter minds are welcomed, by
me, to chime in.

Happy Huntin,

Tabdog

Why don't we just call them Lead seals like the UKF Data Base doe's, which covers Bag, Bale and Coth Seal here's 22 pages of them for you all to look through

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/showcat.php?cat=131

SS

I think the point you and Tabdog are missing is that whatever you want to call them is fine with me. The point is that none of the 22 pages of bag, bale and cloth lead seals have a wire. The lead seal posted at the top of the page is the only one that counts and its hard to be sure without a pic of the back but I can see remains of a rusted wire. I hope I am not upsetting anybody, just trying to make the proper ID. IMO its very possible to be a meter tag. 8)


ADDED: I guess its also possible to be a post 1857 "bale" tag. But nothing presented proves it wasnt used on a meter. Im not calling you Tabdog on your use of the word bale. Im calling you on your opinion that it cannot be a meter tag. If you can present evidence otherwise would be great as I am always willing to learn. 8)

That is a bale seal.

They only look like the meter seals.

They stopped using bale seals in the
mid 1800's. That was before gas and
elec.

Here is one I found,

They identified trade goods in transit.

Happy Huntin,

Tabdog

If it has wire, its most likely post-1857 not pre-1850's. Im not saying Im right. Im just saying that IMO we cannot rule out meter tag.

It's you that are missing the point you obviously never even looked at the link because if you did, you would have seen were a string or WIRE was passed through the seal so I will point you in the right direction, please read the write up

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/showrecords.php?product=21871&cat=131

SS

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

It's you that are missing the point you obviously never even looked at the link because if you did, you would have seen were a string or WIRE was passed through the seal so I will point you in the right direction, please read the write up

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/showrecords.php?product=21871&cat=131

SS

OK thanks SS and I really mean it but try to be a bit more cordial. That is not the same link page you posted and you know it. Geez I searched thru 20 pages looking for rust marks. Yes I missed that. I still think tabdog is missing the point that this still does NOT prove that the item pictured cannot be a meter tag. That is the point I was originally trying to make.

 

[ivan salis]

;ool at thepatent drawins above **** on the earlier model onesthe "wire" stopped in the lead tag -- in the later ones the 2 wires goe thru the entire tag in two channels -this can help in dating them as far as newer or older model / design -- since electrical use and meters were not commonly used during the earlier time frame peroid -- early type ones would not logically be "meter" tags

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

on the earlier ones the "wire" stopped in the tag -- in the later ones it goes thru the entire tag --it can help in dating them-- since electrical use and meters were not commonly used during the early peroid -- early type ones would not logically be "meter" tags

That would be a great clue Ivan if its true. Here is a pic of a modern wire seal where the wire that gos all the way through.

I think you noticed that the patent does not go all the way through so that type would be post 1857. But I do not think a wire going thru could positively rule out meter because these lead seals were made post 1850 as well. The point I am trying to make to no avail.

I still think more pics could help. Its really hard to see.

 

[ivan salis]

look at the patent "drawings" posted a few post back -- and see for yourself -- those seals can help tell you when the area was in "use" time frame wize

one style is 1870 --post CW --another is 1857 --thus pre civil war --by noting the way the holes are and how the wires are --do they end in side the seal -- or do they go thru it ?(iand do they use only one channel or two ? ) is quite useful as to figgering out the date range

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

look at the patent "drawings" posted a few post back -- and see for yourself -- those seals can help tell you when the area was in "use" time frame wize

Yes I agree the patents are all post 1857 and I have IDed tabdogs seal as such that he posted for comparison. . Im just not convinced the seal at the top of this page is pre 1857 but you could be right. Am I missing something?

The modern picture I posted uses a wire all the way thru that can be pulled tight apparently around a bag or a bale. I thought it can also be used on a meter. Maybe Im wrong. Maybe tabdog posting a post 1857 tag messed me up. Truthfully Im not that interested.

 

[Silver Searcher]

It's you that are missing the point you obviously never even looked at the link because if you did, you would have seen were a string or WIRE was passed through the seal so I will point you in the right direction, please read the write up

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/showrecords.php?product=21871&cat=131

SS

OK thanks SS and I really mean it but try to be a bit more cordial. That is not the same link page you posted and you know it. Geez I searched thru 20 pages looking for rust marks. Yes I missed that. I still think tabdog is missing the point that this still does NOT prove that the item pictured cannot be a meter tag. That is the point I was originally trying to make.

I thought I was Very Cordial and I could have posted some of mine but new you would come back with something else, I would hardly think electrical seal could build up that much oxidiation, like the one posted..Geez

SS

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

It's you that are missing the point you obviously never even looked at the link because if you did, you would have seen were a string or WIRE was passed through the seal so I will point you in the right direction, please read the write up

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/showrecords.php?product=21871&cat=131

SS

OK thanks SS and I really mean it but try to be a bit more cordial. That is not the same link page you posted and you know it. Geez I searched thru 20 pages looking for rust marks. Yes I missed that. I still think tabdog is missing the point that this still does NOT prove that the item pictured cannot be a meter tag. That is the point I was originally trying to make.

I thought I was Very Cordial and I could have posted some of mine but new you would come back with something else, I would hardly think electrical seal could build up that much oxidiation, like the one posted..Geez

SS

OK SS no problem. But you accused me of not reading your link but in fact I searched thru 22 pages looking for rust marks. You could have helped by posting a better link. .

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I dont know if the patina dates it as pre electric but here are some pics of modern wire seals that the wire goes all the way through. I think I got it now. As Ivan noticed the patent is only for wire type clips that dont go thru. As SS and tabdog pointed out, this wire style has been around for a long time. I am pointing out that it is still in use today.

http://www.americancasting.com/info-wire-seals-lws.asp

http://www.americancasting.com/info-wire-seals-pls.asp

I remember seeing these on old electric meters like pre 1960.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I had some of these old meters and a guy bought them from me. He said he would make lamps from them. I remember one had purple glass.

Not the same guy Im sure but here are cool lamps made from actual working 1920's era Westinghouse meters with lead seals and all. I thought they look cool. The lead seal I had on my old 60's house elec. meter had a longer wire.

http://www.etgiftstore.com/items/all-products/gifts-over~100/westinghouse-meter-lamp-detail.htm