Lets Talk Pennies

[tnfishdaddy]

Let's Talk Pennies

While searching for halves today, I picked up a box of pennies. Not sure why. All this talk of pennies made me do it. I figured the boys and I could go through them. Not sure I am interested in keeping the copper ones or not. Doesn't seem to be a great place to turn a profit yet. I am looking for wheats. Besides the wheats, what should I be looking for? (Too lazy to dig out my Red Book.) Is there a good place to learn about double dies (?) and other oddities? Not sure why I am even doing pennies. Guess I need a change of pace.

 

[enamel7]

Re: Let's Talk Pennies

Do a search for Ken Potter's websight. He has a ton of information on all coins. There are still some modern coins worth hunting for.

Happy Hunting!

 

[silverfinder37]

Re: Let's Talk Pennies

here ya go!
http://koinpro.tripod.com/
Ray

 

[GMan00001]

Re: Let's Talk Pennies

or if you really get into searching for die varieties.

http://www.coppercoins.com It has more errors than I have time to search for and many you will need good magnification, but its by far the best site I have found on the subject for pennies.

Personally, I just search for the following as they are listed in the red book or worth something if found.

1969-S DDO
1970-S DDO
1971 DDO
* 1972 DDO
1983 DDR
1984 Doubled Ear
* 1992-D close AM
1995 DDO
* 1998 Wide AM
1999 Wide AM
* 2000 Wide AM

* I have found at least one of the variety.

 

[Sheldius]

Re: Let's Talk Pennies

Anyone know how the Ryedale deals with the Brass Planchet struck pennies?

From http://koinpro.tripod.com/

1983, 1985-D, 1997, 1997-D & 1998
"Brass Plated"

Should be slightly different weight, I would guess. And worth something in MS

1983 Brass Plated Strike
MS64 RD $25, MS65 RD $35, MS66 RD $45.00

1985-D Brass Plated Strike
MS64 RD $24.95, MS65 RD $35.00, MS66 RD $45.00

1997 Brass Plated Strike
MS64 RD $34.95, MS65 RD $45.00, MS66 RD $55.00

1997-D Brass Plated Strike
MS64 RD $24.95, MS65 RD $35.00

1998 Brass Plated Strike
MS64 RD $24.95, MS65 RD $35.00, MS66 RD $45.00

 

[TxTim]

Re: Let's Talk Pennies

Anyone know how the Ryedale deals with the Brass Planchet struck pennies?

From http://koinpro.tripod.com/

1983, 1985-D, 1997, 1997-D & 1998
"Brass Plated"

Should be slightly different weight, I would guess. And worth something in MS

1983 Brass Plated Strike
MS64 RD $25, MS65 RD $35, MS66 RD $45.00

1985-D Brass Plated Strike
MS64 RD $24.95, MS65 RD $35.00, MS66 RD $45.00

1997 Brass Plated Strike
MS64 RD $34.95, MS65 RD $45.00, MS66 RD $55.00

1997-D Brass Plated Strike
MS64 RD $24.95, MS65 RD $35.00

1998 Brass Plated Strike
MS64 RD $24.95, MS65 RD $35.00, MS66 RD $45.00

I would guess that brass would go in the reject pile with zincs if you use the copper penny as a reference coin. If you had a brass planchet to put in the reference slot it would probably find them for you.

 

[Sheldius]

Re: Let's Talk Pennies

Could you put a zincoln in the reference slot and have it "reject" the copper and brass coins? That way you don't have to sort twice. Just academic at this point, since I don't have either a source of pennies or a Ryedale.

 

[GMan00001]

Re: Let's Talk Pennies

Could you put a zincoln in the reference slot and have it "reject" the copper and brass coins? That way you don't have to sort twice. Just academic at this point, since I don't have either a source of pennies or a Ryedale.

That's exactly what I asked yesterday in a different thread.

 

[Ryedale]

Re: Let's Talk Pennies

Anyone know how the Ryedale deals with the Brass Planchet struck pennies?

From http://koinpro.tripod.com/

1983, 1985-D, 1997, 1997-D & 1998
"Brass Plated"

Should be slightly different weight, I would guess. And worth something in MS

1983 Brass Plated Strike
MS64 RD $25, MS65 RD $35, MS66 RD $45.00

1985-D Brass Plated Strike
MS64 RD $24.95, MS65 RD $35.00, MS66 RD $45.00

1997 Brass Plated Strike
MS64 RD $34.95, MS65 RD $45.00, MS66 RD $55.00

1997-D Brass Plated Strike
MS64 RD $24.95, MS65 RD $35.00

1998 Brass Plated Strike
MS64 RD $24.95, MS65 RD $35.00, MS66 RD $45.00

Do you have an example of one of these? Or what page of this guys site are they on, I would be happy to buy one and test it. I see they are of zinc composition. So that in mind for "electronic" sorting, It will be rejected when you are using a copper standard. If the "electronic signature" of the coins is different enough from the copper plated zinc planchet, it may also be rejected during a zinc re-sort, as "not a zinc"
The machine does not know the weight of the coins. This is proven by light weight Canadian Copper 12 sided pennies, (98% copper) are accepted as a good copper during the "copper keep" or first pass. Some are still rejected if they have unlike alloys Year to Year. The machine is extremely accurate, the coins compositions are all over the map.
The neat thing about these coins is that they are brightly different colored, and if you are watching the coins process, you will see them. I have found coins of this color and believe it or not, simply put them in the copper or back in the zinc bin, back to circulation, oh well perhaps I'll get it next time.

 

[Ryedale]

Re: Let's Talk Pennies

Could you put a zincoln in the reference slot and have it "reject" the copper and brass coins? That way you don't have to sort twice. Just academic at this point, since I don't have either a source of pennies or a Ryedale.

That's exactly what I asked yesterday in a different thread.

You can do this but it tends to also reject unpure zinc, so your "coppers" tend to be contaminated with these zinc, it will also toss Canadian steel, Canadian zinc, and some other foreign coins. I've found the best process to be, copper keep, then if your not satisfied with the pile of copper you just got, switch to a zinc standard and re-process to get unpure previously rejected coppers (from the 70's only a few per hundred dollars face) and missed wheats (usually one or two per hundred dollars face) etc, that were "not copper" on the first pass. This process is taught in detail in the instructions. There is a method to get nearly everything of value out of the bulk mixed coins. Dont forget, it is a copper mine first, and numismatic mine second.

 

[GMan00001]

Re: Let's Talk Pennies

Could you put a zincoln in the reference slot and have it "reject" the copper and brass coins? That way you don't have to sort twice. Just academic at this point, since I don't have either a source of pennies or a Ryedale.

That's exactly what I asked yesterday in a different thread.

You can do this but it tends to also reject unpure zinc, so your "coppers" tend to be contaminated with these zinc, it will also toss Canadian steel, Canadian zinc, and some other foreign coins. I've found the best process to be, copper keep, then if your not satisfied with the pile of copper you just got, switch to a zinc standard and re-process to get unpure previously rejected coppers (from the 70's only a few per hundred dollars face) and missed wheats (usually one or two per hundred dollars face) etc, that were "not copper" on the first pass. This process is taught in detail in the instructions. There is a method to get nearly everything of value out of the bulk mixed coins. Dont forget, it is a copper mine first, and numismatic mine second.

I understand it will reject potentially other undesirables as well into the copper pile, but consider these two options.

Option 1:
Step 1) Choose the match as a pre-1982 copper penny.
Step 2) Sort the batch of pennies to take out the copper
Step 3) Choose the match as a zincoln penny (post 1982)
Step 4) Sort the first pass rejects to remove the zincolns.
Step 5) Sort through the copper by hand to remove the wheaties.
Step 6) Sort through the second pass rejects to find the older wheaties, foreign, or other keepers.

Option 2:
Step 1) Choose the match as a zincoln penny (post 1982)
Step 2) Sort the batch of pennies to remove the zincolns (guaranteed rejects)
Step 3) Choose the match as a pre-1982 copper penny.
Step 4) Sort the batch of original rejects to take out the copper
Step 5) Sort through the copper by hand to remove the wheaties.
Step 6) Sort through the second pass rejects to find the older wheaties, foreign, or other keepers.

For simplification, say you have 10,000 pennies and the breakdown of the pennies is the following:
zincolns 80%
coppers 19%
Other 1% (other is canadian, old wheaties, foreign, tokens, etc.)

So that would be
8000 zincolns
1900 coppers
100 other

For option 1
Result of step 2) Run all 10,000 pennies through the machine once (result is 1900 coppers, 8100 other)
Result of step 4) Run the 8,100 reject pennies from the first pass through the machine again (result is 8000 zincolns, 100 other)
Result of step 5) Hand sort 1,900 coppers to remove the wheaties.
Result of step 6) Hand sort 100 second pass rejects to remove any other keepers.

For option 2
Result of step 2) Run all 10,000 pennies through the machine once (result is 8000 zincolns, 2000 other)
Result of step 4) Run the 2,000 reject pennies from the first pass through the machine again (result is 1900 coppers, 100 other)
Result of step 5) Hand sort 1,900 coppers to remove the wheaties.
Result of step 6) Hand sort 100 second pass rejects to remove any other keepers.

Total coins run through the machine for option 1 = 18,100
Total coins run through the machine for option 2 = 12,000

Seems like quite a time savings as well as wear and tear on the machine. Now if the machine thinks a lot of copper pennies match the zincoln example I can see you point, but that would also defeat the whole point if the machine if that sorting mechanism did not work properly.


To your other point that you would end up with zincolns that didn't match the zincoln on pass 1 of option 2 because of composition issues in the zincolns. Unless that number is extremely high, you still would have quite a time and machine savings and your coppers would still be pure since you did a compare against coppers.

I guess it is true that it only applies to those who feel they need a second pass on the rejects. Anyone who says the first "copper" pass is good enough, this wouldn't help.

 

[Ryedale]

Re: Let's Talk Pennies

Could you put a zincoln in the reference slot and have it "reject" the copper and brass coins? That way you don't have to sort twice. Just academic at this point, since I don't have either a source of pennies or a Ryedale.

That's exactly what I asked yesterday in a different thread.

You can do this but it tends to also reject unpure zinc, so your "coppers" tend to be contaminated with these zinc, it will also toss Canadian steel, Canadian zinc, and some other foreign coins. I've found the best process to be, copper keep, then if your not satisfied with the pile of copper you just got, switch to a zinc standard and re-process to get unpure previously rejected coppers (from the 70's only a few per hundred dollars face) and missed wheats (usually one or two per hundred dollars face) etc, that were "not copper" on the first pass. This process is taught in detail in the instructions. There is a method to get nearly everything of value out of the bulk mixed coins. Dont forget, it is a copper mine first, and numismatic mine second.

I understand it will reject potentially other undesirables as well into the copper pile, but consider these two options.

Option 1:........................................

your correct as you do not have to run the bulk good zinc twice. I see your point and time/machine savings.
if you just get rid of the bulk zincolns first, then you don't need to go through the zincoln bulk twice. I'll give this a try on my machine. It seems there is some reason I did not do this but it is escaping me right now. I will re-vist. BTW GMan00001, do you sort with a machine? Just interesting that you pondered all this as a passive observer. Always good to have new eyes on the subject. Take care Andy

 

[GMan00001]

Re: Let's Talk Pennies

your correct as you do not have to run the bulk good zinc twice. I see your point and time/machine savings.
if you just get rid of the bulk zincolns first, then you don't need to go through the zincoln bulk twice. I'll give this a try on my machine. It seems there is some reason I did not do this but it is escaping me right now. I will re-vist. BTW GMan00001, do you sort with a machine? Just interesting that you pondered all this as a passive observer. Always good to have new eyes on the subject. Take care Andy

No, I don't currently own a machine. I sort everything by hand and read every date. I pick out certain dates and look for die varieties (some are copper and some are zincolns). If I continue with that process, a machine doesn't really benefit me much. Also up to now I haven't been saving much of the copper due to mainly well just the cost of saving it per my volume. Just in 2007 I have gone through over 740,000 pennies now. If 20% were copper, I'd have put away around $1500 in copper. Between the space and $$ commitment, I decided instead to reinvest the money again and again and just pull out wheaties and a handful of copper (S mints and a few lower mintage or early memorial dates). Now, if I had a reliable easy way to get rid of the copper for a profit (even if the profit was slight) I would probably save it. I may be considering a machine in the future.

Regarding the pondering of the options, just the engineer in me I guess. Always looking for more efficient ways to do things.

 

[Ryedale]

Re: Let's Talk Pennies

your correct as you do not have to run the bulk good zinc twice. I see your point and time/machine savings.
if you just get rid of the bulk zincolns first, then you don't need to go through the zincoln bulk twice. I'll give this a try on my machine. It seems there is some reason I did not do this but it is escaping me right now. I will re-vist. BTW GMan00001, do you sort with a machine? Just interesting that you pondered all this as a passive observer. Always good to have new eyes on the subject. Take care Andy

No, I don't currently own a machine. I sort everything by hand and read every date. I pick out certain dates and look for die varieties (some are copper and some are zincolns). If I continue with that process, a machine doesn't really benefit me much. Also up to now I haven't been saving much of the copper due to mainly well just the cost of saving it per my volume. Just in 2007 I have gone through over 740,000 pennies now. If 20% were copper, I'd have put away around $1500 in copper. Between the space and $$ commitment, I decided instead to reinvest the money again and again and just pull out wheaties and a handful of copper (S mints and a few lower mintage or early memorial dates). Now, if I had a reliable easy way to get rid of the copper for a profit (even if the profit was slight) I would probably save it. I may be considering a machine in the future.

Regarding the pondering of the options, just the engineer in me I guess. Always looking for more efficient ways to do things.

After thinking about my recommended process I have to think back to before the melt ban was enacted. I was selling machines to pure alloy hoarders, who had very little interest in the numis play. I think this is the primary driver of my approach. Also If everyone is concerned with accuracy, the most accurate path, is a one time sort for copper, it's very good at keeping only good coppers (or brass if we are being picky) on the left as accepted coins. so in the interest of an alloy hound, he dosn't want to hear about "re-sort" etc. thus back to Copper mining first, and numis second. I think now that the melt/export ban is in place it's fallen back into the hands of the smaller hoarder, and heavy Numis person, so your method may be the better choice.
One other factor I considered when setting up for copper first, if there is only say 25 percent of the coins that are copper, it only has to cycle the "coin rake" 25% of the time on the discriminator, so alloy hounds had longer discriminator life because of this. I have only replaced one comparator since going into this, and that was because it quit "counting", not because it quit sorting, must have lost a minor board component. Many of these comparators have millions of cycles on them, and are going strong.



Thanks again for your input, it's all good stuff here at T-net.

 

[Sheldius]

Re: Let's Talk Pennies

The exact link on Kpotter site is here in case you want to buy an example to test:

http://koinpro.tripod.com/Brass.htm

I, too, am a curious george sitting on the sidelines. Heck, I don't even hand sort pennies. I just have a questioning mind that goes on tangents when it appears Someone might be able to make more money.

Also thanks for explaining how the Ryedale works. Electrical conductivity is just genius. My hat is off to you.

HH

 

[Ryedale]

Re: Let's Talk Pennies

The exact link on Kpotter site is here in case you want to buy an example to test:

http://koinpro.tripod.com/Brass.htm

I, too, am a curious george sitting on the sidelines. Heck, I don't even hand sort pennies. I just have a questioning mind that goes on tangents when it appears Someone might be able to make more money.

Also thanks for explaining how the Ryedale works. Electrical conductivity is just genius. My hat is off to you.

HH

Really I'm more of an integrator, as compared to an inventor in this case, I cannot take credit for the discriminator, or the hopper, but the complete machine...... Most of the machine components are available technology, being used in a new way. The "marriage" between the hopper and discriminator is where the rubber met the road in this case $$,$$$.00. OUCH. I had to tool up plastic injection molds to make the chutes and chute holder, took 3 months of trial and error and a box of chutes I call the "chute hall of shame". Then took my prototypes to a mold shop where they "reversed engineered" them, and cut tooling. What use to take me 4 hours to make a set, now can be made in 30 seconds. Plastic Injection Mold makers are truly the "candy man". Sort of like Edisons light bulb, I discovered many ways to not make a coin chute. Lots of measuring and some trial and error go into sheet metal design, and then I have a laser cutting company make them,and they powder coat too. It's a tremendous amount of work, but very rewarding too. I have learned so much. Again I'm glad so many here are enjoying the machine. Or even talking about it, sight unseen.

 

[jrf30]

Re: Let's Talk Pennies

<<Now, if I had a reliable easy way to get rid of the copper for a profit (even if the profit was slight) I would probably save it.>>

But you CAN sell them at a profit.

I see $50 in copper selling on ebay, and the average price lately has been about $120. So, if you had $1,500 in copper, then you could have sold it for $3,600 or so. That is over $2,000 in profit. Enough to buy the machine and still have $1,400 left for a nice vacation or something.

You don't have to "save" the copper. Sell it on ebay, and make a profit if you want. then you don't have ot worry about space or money and you will get profits to boot!

:-)