Lewis and Pranty

[wrmickel1]

You're welcome Greg. I'm up to my eyeballs in a research project in the Bradshaws right now, but I will take a few swings at this as time permits.

The mine mentioned in the newspaper article was also mentioned in some other pubs...attached is mine data and cabin site/mine site.

View attachment 1732284

Jim

Is the Pantry Cabin something BLM built there as a attraction.
Cause that’s no where near where I was told.

babymick1

 

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[Gregory E. Davis]

Jim: I do not know. You may have to contact the BLM or Forest Service to find out that answer. There may also be Property Tax Records showing the ownership. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

 

[wrmickel1]

Jim: I do not know. You may have to contact the BLM or Forest Service to find out that answer. There may also be Property Tax Records showing the ownership. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

Greg

What I find most interesting is the place on the map that say’s Wagner. The same area a old timer had me drive him to.
The guy pointed out from the truck and told me that’s the Wagners Ledge. That he personally got gold from as a younger man. He passed away now in a nursing home in Kingman about 40 years or so now at 102 years old. I asked him if it was the Dutchman’s Mine. He said Ohh He’ll No, He said he new the JW. He was just a normal old fellow to a kid.

Thats his story to me, Nothing added nothing made up, So let Dave know that for me.

babymick1

 

[gollum]

Hello Kraig: You are correct for I have a picture of Fred Pranty grave marker in the Pioneer Cemetery, Payson, Arizona and it clearly states that he was buried May 27, 1938. Jack Carlson supplied me with the picture. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

Then maybe you should read this version of the story:

https://hikearizona.com/photoset.php?ID=8463


I wouldn't discount the version told by the man (Cal Greer) who was the man that personally ordered the bones from the jail buried in 1947. I would think he should remember the year he was re-elected. I am also sure that his brother (Gus Greer), being the person that found Pranty's Skeleton would have recounted the story to his brother on more than one occasion over the years.

It is also very possible that when Greer was elected in 1947, he ordered the bones buried according to the year they were found. I can't tell you exactly, but so far I have found three versions of the story that vary slightly in the details, but have the same basic facts.

Mike

PS

......and the version above has the most details about Prante (not Pranty). Maybe that is why you are having a difficult time locating info on him. As the author of the story is Stan Brown, and the story is from 2002, he should be findable?

PSS

Greg, Here is Stan Brown:

http://www.aboites.com/stanbrown/index.php?id=books4

I might recommend giving him a holler and maybe he still has all his research.


It also seems Prante's Neice did a lot of research on her uncle as well. She had an article about him published in the April 1978 TRUE WEST MAGAZINE:



“The Mystery of Pranty Wash”

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Gollum,

The Pranty bones story is confusing but there is no doubt Pranty was buried in the Payson cemetery in May 1938. The death certificate and cemetery records both show the burial took place May 1938. There was no back dating of the paperwork.

There no doubt were bones in the Gila County jail but they were confused by storytellers with Pranty.

 

[wrmickel1]

Mike

So who made the mistake, The old news articles or the modern spelling used today, I wasn’t born yet so it wasn’t me this time,( so please sir let Dave know) Or is there two people mixed in this story.

That might be why there’s two locations for the cabin. One North of the Salt River And one South.

babymick1

 

[gollum]

Matthew,

Seems like Stan Brown got the story directly from Cal Greer who was retired at the time. YOU may say there was no backdating, but how can you say for certain when the man who ordered the bones buried in 1947 says different? Do you know anybody that attended the funeral in 1938? Like I said. I am just relating what I have found. If you find any trouble with it, why not contact Stan Brown directly. He seems to have done a fairly exhaustive job of researching this story? I would recommend also contacting Lois Prante Stevens.....buuuuuuuut she seems to have been born in 1907, so I am assuming she is deader than disco. LOL

Mick,

It is probably something as simple as locals saying Waltz was Dutch because "Deutsche" sounds just like "Dutch" to many people. "Prante" sounds just like "Pranty". I doubt he corrected it, because (according to the story) his mother sent him to sell off some cattle, and he just disappeared before turning up in Globe. HAHAHA

Mike

 

[gollum]

Greg,

Maybe you should give Tom Glover a call. Stan Brown appears to be living in Prescott with his wife Ruth. Tom likely knows him.

Seems like Stan and Ruth Brown donated all their research and pics to Sharlot Hall Museum in Prescott. Next time I am out that way, I will stop by and see what they have regarding Fred Pranty.

Also read:

https://www.paysonroundup.com/the-w...cle_c6a45c17-1f96-5f55-b77f-bd5fdf9c76e7.html

The Payson Newspaper

Mike

 

[Gregory E. Davis]

Hello Mike: In all of the documents that have so far been located, Fred always gave his name as "Fred Pranty." This is true with the legal documents he signed. Now it is possible that the family name may have been changed at some time but I have seen no documented evidence to support that issue. I knew Don Dedera many years ago through the Dons Club. Like many reporters of that day he did his best to get his facts correct however he relied on others to fill in the blanks. All of the documented evidence clearly points to Fred being buried in 1938. Take the date the bones were found and subtract 15 years. That puts the date the bones were original found at 1932 and we know from the documents that Fred was buried in 1938. What I am getting at is the time line from Don's Story does not add up. I can only assume that Don made a mistake or he was given an incorrect date or it was a mistake made by the newspaper type setter. Many thanks for the pictures of Pranty Cabin and the story from True West. Maybe some of his relatives are still around in the area. Everyone, keep up the good work. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

 

[Gregory E. Davis]

Jack Carlson emailed me the other day with the following information: If you subscribe to Newspaper.com, then just type in "Pranty" and then where is says to expand the search, type in "Arizona" in the location box. It took me an entire day to copy all of those articles that appeared. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

 

[gollum]

Jack Carlson emailed me the other day with the following information: If you subscribe to Newspaper.com, then just type in "Pranty" and then where is says to expand the search, type in "Arizona" in the location box. It took me an entire day to copy all of those articles that appeared. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

Say what you will, but I have five versions of the story that share all the same basic facts. I think it is highly likely that they were SUPPOSED to bury Pranty's Remains, but never got around to it. The bones remained in the jail until Greer was elected JP in 1947, and he had the bones buried and the year they were found placed on the marker. It would have been publicly embarrassing back then for something like that to happen, so it likely would not have made the papers. There are also no articles concerning his disappearance in 1924 or the finding of his bones in 1938..........or the burial in either 1938 or 1947.

I am so glad you did that! Saves me a bunch of clipping and saving! LOL I have subscribed to Newspapers.com for several years. If you haven't seen it yet, I thought you might find this article as funny as I did:

DAILY REVIEW, Friday, 03 APRIL 1896



"Recently, Fred Pranty, living on the Upper Salt River A.T. was taken to Phoenix suffering from several severe bites from a skunk. He was bitten twice on the leg and once on the hand."

I will post the article tomorrow.

Mike

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Mike,

In Dederas story he states the bones were in the jail 15 years and rediscovered in 1947.

Since it is an indisputable fact Pranty was found in May 1938, if his bones were found in the jail in 1947, that would have been 9 years. Why didn't Dedera write 9 years instead of 15 ?

If you count the years from when Pranty died 1924 through when he was found and buried 1938, you have the 15 years.

Nobody is calling anybody a liar or incompetent, it's just a good story that got told and told and retold wrong due to the facts being mixed up.

It happens all the time in Dutchman books and life itself for that matter.

Best,

Matthew

 

[Gregory E. Davis]

Good morning Mike and Kraig: If you can locate the cemetery records then they would list the date that the bones were interred. That might resolve this issue. Glad you liked the "subject" to be entered in "Newspaper.com". That is a great site however I wish they had downloaded the Phoenix Gazette. That paper carried stories that the Republican did not. Kraig, thanks for your comments. Discussion is good among friends with different conclusions developed from the current known information. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Good morning Mike and Kraig: If you can locate the cemetery records then they would list the date that the bones were interred. That might resolve this issue. Glad you liked the "subject" to be entered in "Newspaper.com". That is a great site however I wish they had downloaded the Phoenix Gazette. That paper carried stories that the Republican did not. Kraig, thanks for your comments. Discussion is good among friends with different conclusions developed from the current known information. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

Gregory,

The mystery is solved.

On May 27, 1938 Fred Pranty was buried in Payson Pioneer cemetery per coroner and justice Wm. O. Haley. There is no doubt this was Fred Pranty and he was indeed interred that day. Jack Carlson has a photo of Prantys grave stone.

Sometime in 1947 bones mistakenly identified as. Fred Pranty were buried in the Payson cemetery by unknown persons. There is no grave marker for these bones.

So there are two Fred Prantys buried in the cemetery according to cemetery records.

There is no doubt whatsoever the man buried in 1938 was the real Fred Pranty. Who the other bones belong to is unknown. Someone who was unaware of the earlier burial of Pranty simply assumed they must have been Prantys bones.

The mystery solved.

Matthew

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Gregory,

Here are the Payson Pioneer cemetery records for the two Fred Prantys.

Fred Pranty (the Y in Prantys name is illegible on his stone marker.) 1864 - 1924 buried May 1938 grave 94924068.

Fred Pantry (a mis spelling of Pranty) 1924 - 1938 buried 1947 grave 96324516.

Best,

Matthew

 

[Jack Carlson]

You're welcome Greg. I'm up to my eyeballs in a research project in the Bradshaws right now, but I will take a few swings at this as time permits.

The mine mentioned in the newspaper article was also mentioned in some other pubs...attached is mine data and cabin site/mine site.

View attachment 1732284

Hi Jim and all,
I just checked the source of the "In The Box Canyon" article that mentions Lewis and Pranty. Newspapers.com shows it as "Weekly Republican" (7-2-1896 p2 c2). I sometimes look at page one to verify the name of the newspaper and found in this case that the newspaper is named "Phoenix Weekly Herald." Not sure why this happens. Maybe the newspaper was grouped with later newspapers that were named Weekly Republican. Note that the article was written by P. C. Bicknell.

Thanks for putting everything in a pdf file for us.
Jack

 

[Gregory E. Davis]

Good morning Kraig: Thank you for the information pertaining to the Payson Cemetery Records. I'll have to take a drive up there and get photo copies of the entries from the record books for the Lewis and Pantry File. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Hi Jim and all,
I just checked the source of the "In The Box Canyon" article that mentions Lewis and Pranty. Newspapers.com shows it as "Weekly Republican" (7-2-1896 p2 c2). I sometimes look at page one to verify the name of the newspaper and found in this case that the newspaper is named "Phoenix Weekly Herald." Not sure why this happens. Maybe the newspaper was grouped with later newspapers that were named Weekly Republican. Note that the article was written by P. C. Bicknell.

Thanks for putting everything in a pdf file for us.
Jack

Hi Jack, glad to see you posting on here. Thanks for catching the "Herald" vice "Republican" newspaper confusion. (I did notice that Bick wrote the article!) Another thing I noticed is they were neighbors in Cave Creek with Jim Bark's in-laws (if I remember correctly...the Sears-Kay Ranch).

I found John W. and William F. Lewis on the census in 1900 and 1910...in Cave Creek...apparently first living with their two uncles (Boone Lewis and Samuel Taylor, which gives us their possible mother's maiden name) and then on their own. Did not find anything on them on the 1920 or later census...doesn't mean they weren't there, but it looks like they surely did sell out to the Cartwrights, as botht he Cartwright and Sears-Kay Ranches can be seen on the 1964 Humboldt Mtn. Quadrangle topo.

They’re from Missouri originally, per the census. Both census reports say they're gold miners.

Not sure where they wound up or what happened to them, but if they stayed in AZ, here are two death cert’s that are suspiciously close to what theirs might’ve looked like.

View attachment 1732688

View attachment 1732689

Anyway, it could be that Lewis and Pranty partnered up in 1890 as a result of one "B. L. Tiffany" selling his share of the "Lewis and Tiffany Cattle Ranch" to Fred Pranty, who was listed as living in Reymert. So Pranty may have been working the mines or mill there:

View attachment 1732693

 

[azdave35]

Hi Jack, glad to see you posting on here. Thanks for catching the "Herald" vice "Republican" newspaper confusion. (I did notice that Bick wrote the article!) Another thing I noticed is they were neighbors in Cave Creek with Jim Bark's in-laws (if I remember correctly...the Sears-Kay Ranch).

I found John W. and William F. Lewis on the census in 1900 and 1910...in Cave Creek...apparently first living with their two uncles (Boone Lewis and Samuel Taylor, which gives us their possible mother's maiden name) and then on their own. Did not find anything on them on the 1920 or later census...doesn't mean they weren't there, but it looks like they surely did sell out to the Cartwrights, as botht he Cartwright and Sears-Kay Ranches can be seen on the 1964 Humboldt Mtn. Quadrangle topo.

They’re from Missouri originally, per the census. Both census reports say they're gold miners.

Not sure where they wound up or what happened to them, but if they stayed in AZ, here are two death cert’s that are suspiciously close to what theirs might’ve looked like.

View attachment 1732688

View attachment 1732689

Anyway, it could be that Lewis and Pranty partnered up in 1890 as a result of one "B. L. Tiffany" selling his share of the "Lewis and Tiffany Cattle Ranch" to Fred Pranty, who was listed as living in Reymert. So Pranty may have been working the mines or mill there:

View attachment 1732693

jim..you ever been to the sears kay ranch?

 

[PotBelly Jim]

jim..you ever been to the sears kay ranch?

Yep... One of these days we'll have to go out there so you can point some stuff out

Just found the Lewis family on the Missouri 1880 census BTW...Greg, if you don't have that census stuff already I can send it to you for your files.

Dave, do you have the issue of True West that Mike posted? I haven't looked thru my junk, but I don't think I have it...I think I would have remembered an article about Fred Pranty?