Looking for type ID on these two points

[Steve in PA]

Here are a couple recent finds I came across while metal detecting. These were found in SW PA in separate fields about a mile apart.

The one on the left is 1.7" x .645". The one on the right is 1.28" x .935"

 

[uniface]

Left: https://www.projectilepoints.net/Points/Orient.html

Right: MAY be a Decatur point -- is the edge of the base square or knife edged (wedge) ?

 

[Steve in PA]

Left: https://www.projectilepoints.net/Points/Orient.html

Right: MAY be a Decatur point -- is the edge of the base square or knife edged (wedge) ?

Thanks. Someone suggested that the one on the left is a Brewerton, but after looking over the Brewerton type on the internet, I wasn't convinced. The base on the one on the right is square, like it was broke off.

 

[uniface]

It's a Decatur point, then.

https://www.projectilepoints.net/Points/Decatur.html

 

[Steve in PA]

It's a Decatur point, then.

https://www.projectilepoints.net/Points/Decatur.html

Wow, looking at the pictures there is a lot variation with that type. Mine, looks like the base was snapped off, either by accident or intentionally

 

[The Grim Reaper]

The black one to me looks like a Fishspear type. Does it have a high median ridge on both faces?

Can an you show a close up of the base on the smaller one please? It looks broken in that picture.

 

[uniface]

Square base edge was intentional. both corners taken off, plus a notch in the middle of the base edge. Then two tranchet flakes that met in the middle. That is what defines the type.

 

[Steve in PA]

Here are some additional pic that may help:

The "Decatur" looking from the tip


The "Decatur" base


The "Orient" from the tip


The "Orient" from the base


The "Orient" base

 

[Charl]

Thanks. Someone suggested that the one on the left is a Brewerton, but after looking over the Brewerton type on the internet, I wasn't convinced. The base on the one on the right is square, like it was broke off.

Ritchie regarded Normanskill points as a narrow version of Brewerton Side Notched, because they are often found together on the same sites...

New York State Museum - Projectile Point Type Collection

New York State Museum - Projectile Point Type Collection

 

[Steve in PA]

Ritchie regarded Normanskill points as a narrow version of Brewerton Side Notched, because they are often found together on the same sites...

New York State Museum - Projectile Point Type Collection

New York State Museum - Projectile Point Type Collection

Thanks. I would say mine looks more like #16 on the illustrated Normanskill points. This Point ID business can be pretty confusing.

 

[uniface]

Normanskill shoulders are wider than yours' are.

Orient, IMHO. Used to find them pretty regularly when we lived in Montour Co. Being from Terminal Archaic, they were more recent by several thousand years = more likely to turn up along with the Canfields, Drybrooks, Susquehannas, &c. that dominated the Susquehanna river sites.

FWIW

 

[Steve in PA]

Normanskill shoulders are wider than yours' are.

Orient, IMHO. Used to find them pretty regularly when we lived in Montour Co. Being from Terminal Archaic, they were more recent by several thousand years = more likely to turn up along with the Canfields, Drybrooks, Susquehannas, &c. that dominated the Susquehanna river sites.

FWIW

This was found in Westmoreland County PA, not far from the Youghiogheny River.
Do you still feel that the other is a Decatur after the other pictures I posted. Was the stem broke off intentionally? If so I feel better have found a completely intact specimen.

 

[Tdog]

Sorry, duplicate post.

 

[Tdog]

I'd say the black piece is an Orient Fishtail and the other has an unintentionally snapped off base.

https://www.projectilepoints.net/Points/Orient.html

https://www.projectilepoints.net/Points/Decatur.html

 

[Charl]

Thanks. I would say mine looks more like #16 on the illustrated Normanskill points. This Point ID business can be pretty confusing.

The straight base and side notching, in particular the side notching, are a much closer match to Normanskill, than to Orient Fishtail, IMO. Fishtails have a base that flares out like a fishtail, as the type name suggests....

New York State Museum - Projectile Point Type Collection

 

[uniface]

double post

 

[uniface]

1) Take distribution maps with a grain of salt -- Dick Savage found a showstopper Decatur in Union Co. Hornstone, no less.

2) I explained the Decatur base. Maybe this gets it across better : https://oplin.org/point/identify/bifacial/points/corner/decatrpt.html

3) Orient basses are variable. Several dead-ringer match examples @ https://www.projectilepoints.net/Points/Orient.html

 

[Charl]

For purposes of comparison.

These are Orient Fishtails. Notice the very broad, yet shallow side notching. JMO, but whatever your point is, I don’t believe it resembles an Orient Fishtail very much....



And these are Normanskill points. Most have straight bases, but a minority have convex bases...

 

[uniface]

Your New Englanders look a lot flatter than the Penna. ones I used to find. FWIW (if anything).

3) Orient bases are variable. Several dead-ringer match examples @ https://www.projectilepoints.net/Points/Orient.html

 

[Charl]

Again, for comparison, Brewerton Side Notch. There are examples with narrow blades, but the side notching is not as bold as other side notching forms. Might not rule it out, though, and yes, typology can be a *****