Looking for type ID on these two points

[Steve in PA]

Here are a couple recent finds I came across while metal detecting. These were found in SW PA in separate fields about a mile apart.

The one on the left is 1.7" x .645". The one on the right is 1.28" x .935"

 

[Charl]

Your New Englanders look a lot flatter than the Penna. ones I used to find. FWIW (if anything).

3) Orient bases are variable. Several dead-ringer match examples @ https://www.projectilepoints.net/Points/Orient.html

Those are great examples. But, I always keep in mind, although I really like that particular online typology, that it is known to include mistakes in the examples it uses to illustrate type. I say that because it has been pointed out many times elsewhere in the forum universe.

Speaking of variability, the region around Narragansett Bay, where I mostly hunt, has an unofficial variant, known as an Orient Stemmed. In his New England typology, Boudreau included a couple. It’s an Orient blade form, but with a stem associated with the Small Stem Tradition. It was proposed as a type, but remains unofficial, and is extremely local in distribution. Orient Stemmed points are described, illustrated, and compared to Orient Fishtail in this issue of the Bulliten of the Massachusetts Archaeological Society:

https://maxwell.bridgew.edu/exhibits/BMAS/pdf/MAS-v60n01.pdf

 

[Steve in PA]

1) Take distribution maps with a grain of salt -- Dick Savage found a showstopper Decatur in Union Co. Hornstone, no less.

2) I explained the Decatur base. Maybe this gets it across better : https://oplin.org/point/identify/bifacial/points/corner/decatrpt.html

3) Orient basses are variable. Several dead-ringer match examples @ https://www.projectilepoints.net/Points/Orient.html

Wow that Decatur is an oldie!

 

[Steve in PA]

Again, for comparison, Brewerton Side Notch. There are examples with narrow blades, but the side notching is not as bold as other side notching forms. Might not rule it out, though, and yes, typology can be a *****

View attachment 1833415

Mine looks a lot like middle row, second from left. Here are a couple more profile pictures of the disputed point. I appreciate everyone's help.

 

[uniface]

Wow that Decatur is an oldie!

All Decaturs are Early Archaic.

Done beating the Orient ID up. Carry on, gents.

 

[Steve in PA]

All Decaturs are Early Archaic.

Done beating the Orient ID up. Carry on, gents.

Thanks for your input on my points. I guess the Orient/Brewerton "hybrid" shows how this point typology is not a cut and dry thing.