Ma Pa mine of Tayopa has been found

[Blindbowman]

hello .. we have been talking about this discovery in a few other post and i would like to start a new post to redirect the topic in the direction the discovery is taking it .. things are changing day by day and the sites are still being with held till the permits and legal matters are solved ...

that said we have found the Ma Pa mines of Tayopa we will be proving it over the next 6 months with ore samples and a full disclosure tot he state of Arizona ..

we have decoded the tayopa stones and located 35 diffrent sites so far , we do not know what is at all these site other then the Ma pa ,mines and a few of the the others , but some of them are totally unknown as to what will be found at those sites ..they show up in code directions and we know there is some reason the map maker put them on in the code

now we have broken the code and decoded the stone as far as the location of the two main mines .. the third is waiting for a full decoded translation be fore we say what it is and where ...

what we know at this point is the tayopa stones ( also known as the Peralta stones ) were made in 1646
and do hold a complex multi tri code of the Jesuit order ..

we would love to share more info but at this point we can not release much more then what has been said here ...

we are 100% positive this is in fact the tayopa Ma Pa mines , we have found 8 or 9 other legends link to these mines and hope to help end the confusion of what is what .. and why ..

we are working on making sure the translations of each site is clear and accurate

some of this 460 year old code is very complex and we hope you will wait till we can share the data with the public ..

 

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[Blindbowman]

now i under stand more about the Tayopa complex .. the 3 richest mines in the world are the Ma Pa and the piedad or Hoya .. it has taken some decodeing but we have now reason to beleive these are the 3 mines in question .. we have 2 out of the 3 located ,....
what make these mines diffrent from the area round them ....good question ..

 

[Oroblanco]

Hola amigos,
I understand how you got Tayopa from the inscription on the Peralta stones, but I fail to understand how you arrived at those two names of "Ma" and "Pa" as mines; "mapa" would mean map, and as far as I know of the names of the mines of Tayopa, (of which I only know nine, the other 13 I do not know besides the Paramo placer) these are:

mina sto. nino
mina misericordias
mina de guadelupe
mina concepcion
mina clavos
mina montes
mina oroche
mina el senor
mina remedios

plus the paramos placer
9 named of 22 lode mines, 17 on another map but 22 are shown on the Caminos de Tayopa map which our amigo Don Jose has said is virtually correct.

Do you have another source besides the Peralta stones that names two of the Tayopa mines as "Ma" and "Pa"? If so, I would appreciate if you could point me to it. Thank you in advance;
Oroblanco

 

[Blindbowman]

i have 4 sources that id the mines other then the Tayopa stones ,, the names you listed are coded ,you do know that don't you ..i have no idea what real de has found or not found .. we would have to set down and compair what we have before that could be put into some kind of under standing and detail .. if those names are coded as i beleive they are .. then what i am working on may locate mines at his site as well as the ones i have been working on ..

i will go on record as saying....." i believe there are 3 mines here at location and the Para mo placer, all related to each other ."

this maybe what is confusing everyone about where these mines are , these 4 sites are isolated from the others ,if i am correct there are 13 where Real De is...

i realized what was going on when i herd the dick holmes letter

look close , Ma, Pa ,Hoya or ( Piedad ) and Paramo placer ... Waltz was high grading these mines he says and it drops off into the wash ..this is the Paramo placer in the wash ..

i am positive these are the real names of the mines at this location ,.

why your asking questions, i can only say "this set of vanes runs no less then 3092 ft at times it has heavy gold and at times it show almost pure silver ..i have not study the trove yet .. beyond its placement...i will say this vane dose something i have never seen before .. it makes a full 90 degree turn in solid rock . or there are two vanes....crossing each other ...

 

[Blindbowman]

so why dont you tell me why someone would put 18 mines that close together .. ? and the tayopa minas is 17 mines ..the list dose not say what dirrection these mines are located in .. in fact the list is very bland to the point of even looking made up or faked ..the reason i say that is because the paramo is on the list but is not listed as a placer , at the top of your page it says mines .. the paramo is not a mine ..your list has a flaw ,so many flaws dose it have ...? in fact if you look at your list . there is pin marks in front of all the names but 4 , and the paramo is one those 4 and is not listed in order with the other 3 that are all in order together ...

your list may in fact be real but it may also be in code as well ...

and note to you real de . where is the piedad ?

do you have date of when this list was made and by who it made .. i think you will find out

your right . it dose not say wich church door ...

1) the Hoya or piedad is the Santo Nino on this list
2) the maria would have to be the MA
3) san Ignacio is the PA mine and
4) the paramo is the placer in the wash

i think you could have a coded list Real de ..but look at the nino . change it to kino .see kino wrote about the Hoya. this list is much newer then the trove letter of 1646 ,, very interesting thank you ..

i get it now the list was made way after the fact,when Kino was alive . this list could have been made by Kino him self .. the person beleives the coded data was in varas ...lol

OK now i get it .. thanks for posting that Real de ..

 

[Blindbowman]

thank you very very much ,,,, Real de .. that was very usefull data ...

 

[Blindbowman]

that was interesting Real de ,, note your map says Mapa , yet the ruth gonzales map says MAPA ,, note your map show the paramo place link to a sting that links it to 4 squares ...

i am correct .. these 4 mines are at my location why the rest are were you are ..if you have the right site ,...

i was able to locate the Paramo placer using your data and my church site

 

[Blindbowman]

there is no question what so ever i can use your data at my site ... work good ,, real de do you know how to use the data ? you most likely would not say anything to anyone here at the site .. .i know why ...

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good evening BB; You asked about Paramo, yes it is a placer, but remember "he has a placer mine" should explain it.

You asked--> fact the list is very bland to the point of even looking made up or faked ..the reason i say that is because the paramo is on the list but is not listed as a placer ,
************

Yes, it is factual report, It was not intended to be dramatic, just to make two points. As for el Paramo, see first sentence above.

A) The original was coded in varas, which is obviously impossible since a vara is approx. 1/2 meter.

B) To demonstrate the physical configuration that they exist in, exactly as they should be.
=========================================================================================


You asked --> there is pin marks in front of all the names but 4 , and the paramo is one those 4 and is not listed in order with the other 3 that are all in order together ...
****************

Those are my marks. I don't remember why I put them there, but since I made up the entire list ? Obviously the originals were in Spanish.

==========================================================================================

You asked --> do you have date of when this list was made and by who it made .. i think you will find out
****************
about the time of the original Indian revolt.
==========================================================================================

You asked --> real de do you know how to use the data ?
**************

No problem what so ever.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Blindbowman]

Good evening BB; You asked about Paramo, yes it is a placer, but remember "he has a placer mine" should explain it.

You asked--> fact the list is very bland to the point of even looking made up or faked ..the reason i say that is because the paramo is on the list but is not listed as a placer ,
************

Yes, it is factual report, It was not intended to be dramatic, just to make two points. As for el Paramo, see first sentence above.

A) The original was coded in varas, which is obviouly impossible since a vara is approx. 1/2 meter.

B) To demonstrate the physical configuration that they exist in, exactly as they should be.
=========================================================================================


You asked --> there is pin marks in front of all the names but 4 , and the paramo is one those 4 and is not listed in order with the other 3 that are all in order together ...
****************

Those are my marks. I don't remember why I put them there, but since I made up the entire list ? Obviously the originals were in Spanish.

==========================================================================================

You asked --> do you have date of when this list was made and by who it made .. i think you will find out
****************
about the time of the original Indian revolt.
==========================================================================================

You asked --> real de do you know how to use the data ?
**************

No problem what so ever.

Don Jose de La Mancha

"A) The original was coded in varas, which is obviously impossible since a vara is approx. 1/2 meter."

no that's whats wrong . they are not coded in varas
then you know by now the readings are not in var-as those are not distance measurements ...
thats the new vara, the old was from the wrest to the elbow . 12 -14 inches , but that dose not matter those reading are not distance readings ...


do you have a copy of the Original...?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Don Jose

 

[Blindbowman]

well that's why i ask you .. if you knew how to read them .. those are not Varas

those are not even distance measurements ,now i am convinced i am correct .. and yes i can help you as well ..

how do you know the The original was coded in varas..?

did you amuse they were ?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi BB: you asked -->how do you know the The original was coded in varas..?
**************
Because they said so. I. E. written data.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Blindbowman]

Hi BB: you asked -->how do you know the The original was coded in varas..?
**************
Because they said so. I. E. written data.

Don Jose de La Mancha

"they said so" who is they .. ? are you saying I.E. is translator

they said so are you saying the original said they were in varas ...?

the trove letter said a lot of things but it was all in code and half of was window dressing , had nothing to do with the real data ..

 

[Oroblanco]

Blindbowman wrote

i have 4 sources that id the mines other then the Tayopa stones ,, the names you listed are coded ,you do know that don't you

May I ask what those other four sources are? Thank you in advance, and I have my doubts about them being coded.

Blindbowman also wrote

so why dont you tell me why someone would put 18 mines that close together .. ?

The location of mines are largely at the caprice of Mother Nature, man doesn't get much choice in where the veins, lenses or other types of deposits get placed. For instance in the valley of Deadwood, are nearly 100 mines all within a few yards of each other, while at the Vulture mine in AZ there is no other mine located within miles of it. Man doesn't get to choose where the gold or silver is found.

So far, this Tayopa-in-the-Superstitions theory has only that single thread which you present as the proof; namely those Peralta stones which as you know are not even universally accepted as being genuine. I look forward to you building this theory, it could be interesting; however I can't imagine what will support it. All the Tayopa record-history I have seen, places it in Sonora, well south of the Superstitions, and I still haven't seen any evidence of a Jesuit presence in the Superstitions either. So we will need to see some kind of evidence of Jesuits operating north of the Gila river in Arizona, in 1602-1603 for starters, then there has to be a mission church, a village of huts where the people lived, trails in and out etc so I hope you have more than those very questionable Peralta stones to build this theory on.
Oroblanco

 

[Blindbowman]

lol yes i do .. my son just got home for a few days from BU ,,, but don't worry i know what i am doing ,, i am not trying to misled anyone .. i think Real de's data is real ,, i just think someone did not translate it correctly ..but there was enough for me to find out what i wanted to ...

to be totally honest with you or .. you real only need one positive source .. the real one ...lol you have under stood what i am doing .. you see a puzzle with one piece left to put in to finish it .but if that piece was setting on the table only would you know it was the last piece or the first ...?

 

[cactusjumper]

Don Jose and Roy,

It seems obvious to me, that your problem is that you have place all your faith in this mysterious translator.....Mr. I.E. Is there a historical book or document where we can examine other translations he was involved in?

This seems an important clue that we should not take lightly.

Take care,

LMAO Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

lol yes i do .. my son just got home for a few days from BU ,,, but don't worry i know what i am doing ,, i am not trying to misled anyone .. i think Real de's data is real ,, i just think someone did not translate it correctly ..but there was enough for me to find out what i wanted to ...

to be totally honest with you or .. you real only need one positive source .. the real one ...lol you have under stood what i am doing .. you see a puzzle with one piece left to put in to finish it .but if that piece was setting on the table only would you know it was the last piece or the first ...?

Are the MA and PA an abbreviation for longer names? Thank you in advance, and I look forward to those other sources; hopefully they will be something I have on hand so can look up, but so far we have only managed to get one box of books out of the truck so even if we have it, I may not be able to GET it. Beth worked in the truck a while today, trying to get at the kitchen supplies (canning) and found a file pouch full of mine maps, they are water damaged so it was a bit disheartening. I had told our amigo Cactusjumper that I may have a map of the mines of the Randolph district and if it is in that folder, it may be ruined. The one on top is a California mine map, so I hope the rest are not AZ maps but am afraid to try tearing them apart. <They are not 'treasure maps' but geologic maps made by the bureau of mines, showing the tunnels, shafts etc of known mines not lost or hidden mines.> Not sure whether to try pulling them apart as they are (dry) or whether to wet them and try that. I was told that you just soak your water-damaged papers and you can get them apart, then let them dry but when I tried that experiment some time ago, it just removed all the ink from the papers.

I hope all is well with you and that your brother is at least resting comfortably. thanks again and I look forward to reading your replies.

Don Jose and Roy,

It seems obvious to me, that your problem is that you have place all your faith in this mysterious translator.....Mr. I.E. Is there a historical book or document where we can examine other translations he was involved in?

This seems an important clue that we should not take lightly.

Take care,

LMAO Joe

Hola amigo Joe, didn't realize you were following this thread; I am curious to hear <read> this newest theory, and see if there is anything to it beyond the Peralta stones. If it is solely based on the Peralta stones, then I will have a very hard time believing it as I have serious doubts on them. Our amigo Blindbowman has said there are several other sources that name these two mines MA and PA, so I am hoping it will be sources I can look up.

I hope all is well with you Joe, and that the heat has modified enough to make it tolerable at least.
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[Blindbowman]

Are the MA and PA an abbreviation for longer names?

yes , but what the full name is ,is a matter of whos list you think is translate correctly ...

real de list calls the Ma by a diffrent name then the trove list ,, the jesus maria y jose mine the Pa is the San Ignacio the placer in the wash is the EL paramo the Hoya is the Santo nino


see if you look its not what Waltz says . its what he dose not say ..

the same 3 mines and the placer

church grant

i took Real de reading and directly hit the EL paramo place from the stone church at my site ... whats the odds of that happeing .. and then look two of the readings are the same . both the ma and pa are side by side ,, but the Hoya is not .. i had the hoya defind as the peidad .., but as i said i have 3 mines and one placer

the only reason i have tryed to name the hoya is to gain insight into what the other mines are ..

Waltz only tells us what he wants us to know .. yet , the peralta could have only told him what they know ..

i looked i could not find the placer .. i dont think waltz could have ether .. so how did he know it was there ... the only logic way is someone told him where it was ...

 

[Oroblanco]

Blindbowman wrote

Waltz only tells us what he wants us to know .. yet , the peralta could have only told him what they know ..

i looked i could not find the placer .. i dont think waltz could have ether .. so how did he know it was there ... the only logic way is someone told him where it was ...

That brings us back to that problem of how the mine was discovered in the first place; so far, I haven't seen any evidence of any Peraltas ever being present in the Superstitions nor any land grant (that was not fraudulent) nor church grant nor mining concession etc. Waltz made no mention of any Peraltas prior to 1891 to anyone; in fact the only related incident I could find was two Peralta men whom were working a gold mine in the Goldfield area and were attacked by Indians, again presumed to be Apaches but possibly another tribe (Yavapai, Navajo, etc) but you seem to accept the whole Peralta saga as gospel, so when one takes that approach the possibilities of being misled are vast. That incident is the source, I believe, of how the Peraltas became enmeshed with the Waltz history - probably wrongfully so, or if it is right to associate those Peraltas with Waltz's gold mine, then his mine is in the Goldfield hills and NOT in the Superstitions Wilderness Area at all!

I don't want to keep bugging you about those other four sources, if you would rather not post them in public perhaps it would be more discreet to send them by PM? *(or Email? I have lost your Email address, but mine is Roy_A_Decker@yahoo.com) Either way (public or private) is fine with me, and if you don't want it made public I will not mention it to anyone without your prior permission.
Roy