Mass Laws regarding metal detecting/digging

[Litco2]

Can you use your metal detectors in parks in Mass? What about jut walking through the woods or on a piece of property that is abandoned?

 

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[youcancallmesir]

If it is a town or city park, it depends on the local rules. The state has it's rules on the state web site. Any time you are in the woods or other piece of property, it is doubtful that it is "abandoned". It is likely owned by someone even if you don't know who it is.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

as you-can-call-me-sir says, it depends on what kind (entity ownership/governance) of park you're referring to. If you have any doubt, look potential rules up FOR YOURSELF (as opposed to asking a desk-bound bureaucrat "can I?"). The reason for this is, you don't want to risk a "no", (simply because some bored desk clerk morphs something else to apply to your "pressing question"), when in fact, no real rule specifically says "no metal detecting". If the rules of the city, county, or state are silent on the issue (ie.: nothing specifically addressing "metal detectors") well then presto, I guess it must not be prohibited

You can check this site, as per the state level parks:

Federation of Metal Detector & Archaeological Clubs Inc.

But even this is highly dubious, as .... quite frankly ........ some of those states with dire sounding "no's" or "inquire at each kiosk" type answers, are ..... truth be told, detected with no problems. The way such verbage gets into a compendium list like this, is that decades ago, someone takes it upon themselves to write a letter to each state capitol's headquarters, asking something like "can we metal detect in state parks there?". Well, duh, what do you *think* the "safe" answer is going to be? Since some parks might be historically themed and sensitive, yet others are probably innocuous and no one's ever cared (regular beaches, etc...), yet you know full well that the "safe" answer is going to be an across the board "no", or whatever. Yet oddly, when lists like this first started appearing, old-timers scratched their heads and thought "since when?". See how that psychology works? It's the old "no one cares, till you ask" routine. For example: If you read of CA on that list, you might think you're burdened with loops to hit state of CA beaches. Yet I can tell you that we hunt state of CA beaches all the time here, in full view of rangers or anyone, and no one ever cares (I guess no one here ever asked enough questions, lest those rank and file would need to look things up in their books, and start booting people).

As for "abandoned" type properties, I hunt them all the time, if I'm travelling around, and see something that looks worth checking. But ..... again, if you want to be technical, it's (as call-me-sir says) technically still "owned" by someone, no matter how "abandoned" it seems. No matter how many short-cut trails criss-cross that vacant lot, or no matter how many fences or signs it "lacks", if you wanted to get "technical", you can't even step off the sidewalk. But again, how technical do you want to be? It may be owned by an out of state bank (bank repo's. or emminent domain, or whatever) and sure...... I suppose you'd have to write letters to some out-of-state bank (and you can guess their response), or inquire of city council to have a meeting about it, pass it through their legal dept, and so forth (and you can guess their response). But ...... to each his own.

 

[jay28]

saw this on that link Tom_in_CA posted, I am also from MA and want to get a MD but am getting woried with all these places being banned in other states

Massachusetts Yes On beach and campsite areas with permission of the Park Supervisor

 

[AC1955]

Yes on beaches except National Seashore beaches: Cape Cod/Marconi National Seashore, north shore (Crane's Beach, Plum Island). May be some others but can't think of them at the moment.

HH,

Anita

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Jay , if you're worried about what the link says about state run parks in your state , well then just hunt city , county or private sites . Nothing to worry about

 

[blueberra]

Here's a blurb from a different MD forum that answers the question for Mass. state parks ...

Metal Detecting in MA State Parks-rules

---

I was curious if this was allowed so I emailed the Department of Conservation and Recreation and promptly got this answer within an hour or 2. Thought I would share it with you all.

Good Morning,

Thank you for contacting DCR. To get permission to use a metal detector in one of our State Parks, you must contact the park supervisor for each individual park you are looking to metal detect in. They give permission to constituents who are interested. I have included the link to our Find a Park locator from DCR’s Website, which can help you find a park’s information. Please contact DCR with any future questions or concerns.

http://www.mass.gov/dcr/forparks.htm

Bill Hickey
DCR Community Relations

From personal experience, I asked the supervisor of Hopkinton State Park for permission to detect and he told me it was OK but restricted to the beach. In fact, then next year there was a sign posted at the beach that states 'metal detecting is restricted to sandy beach area'.

So there appears to be a blanket rule in effect at Hopkinton which doesn;t require individual permission.

I can't speak to the other state parks, but I did ask the Hopkinton supervisor in person for permission. I'd be willing to bet that asking face-to-face is a good strategy.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I asked the supervisor of Hopkinton State Park for permission to detect and he told me it was OK but restricted to the beach. In fact, then next year there was a sign posted at the beach that states 'metal detecting is restricted to sandy beach area'.

To me, the fact that a sign appeared later, after you asked your question, simply reeks of the psychology of "a rule being invented" (the sign that appeared) to address your pressing question. I have even heard of it going the other way (the opposite of what you're posting): Someone asks "can I?", and gets a "no". Then lo & behold a sign appears saying "no metal detectors" (or a policy comes into effect passed on to the rank & file to "BOL" for, etc...). And you have to wonder: Gee, did my "pressing question" simply cause this, to begin with? Ie.: the feeling of a bureaucrat "gee this isn't addressed, we better get something specific here" or "let's clarify that", and so forth. It's as if you simply get a "no" to address your pressing issue.

Fortunately, in your case, you got a "yes". Not sure if anyone had ever actually cared if someone detected OFF the beach before that (eg.: in the campgrounds). And then, given the "pressing question", makes a policy, etc... And perhaps prior to your asking, those same DCR persons would perhaps never have paid a 2nd mind to anyone hunting in the campgrounds (verses the beach), if they'd just been passing you by?

And as for the initial reply to your letter, telling you to "ask at each kiosk you come to": This type answer was the answer received by R.W. "Doc" Grim when he set about to send letters to all 50 states. He asked in similar fashion to what you did. A lot of the answers he received back, sounded similar. "Ask at each park you come to" type-answers. And the reason is probably simple: because admittedly, in each state, there were bound to be *some* parks that had historical themes, and admited sacred monuments, that .... of course ..... they didn't want people snooping through. And even though the other 95% might be innocuous non-sacred, non-historically themed parks, where no one had ever had a problem before, yet the "easy" answer was just to say "inquire at each one". Because they simply could not delve into complicated long answer like "no at these 5, but yes at every other, but not at the left corner historic cabin of such & such, but ok on the beach here and there, blah blah blah". They simply can not get super long-winded, since the parks had a wide variety of themes. So the easy answer was "ask at each one".

So people took the answer to heart (much like you did), and started asking at each one they came to! Mind you, prior to this, perhaps none of them had ever had a problem being detected before! And then dazed rangers at kiosks are now fielding the "can I?" question. The clerk then gets on his phone, calls a state archie, and returns to the window to tell them "no". And all the while, the old-timers are left scratching their heads saying "since when?"

You see the vicious self-fulfilling loop psychology?

 

[blueberra]

I hear you.

The fact that permission is left to the discretion of the individual park supervisor means there is an opportunity to make a personal relationship with said individual. I brought some muffins to the guy I spoke with. Bribery? Maybe.

I'm sure that if I had come back again and talked to the supervisor and shot the breeze for a while, I could have broached the topic of off-beach detecting. Since it was October, there wasn't a whole lot of traffic at the park, so the supervisor would have probably welcomed a conversation to get him through the drudgery of the day.

To compound the issue even more, these are several state parks in Mass. (e.g. Ashland State Park) that are closed due to budget / staffing contraction. Finding a supervisor to even ask might be an exercise in futility.

So one might detect with a little more impunity in Ashland than one does in Hopkinton.

For what it's worth, the first time I detected the beach at Hopkinton, I struck up conversations with a few passers-by, most of whom were walking their dogs, (sign specifically prohibits dogs on the beach, so there you go) and 2 or 3 people told me they frequently see MDers on the beach.

At the end of the day, I would have learned that fact myself because I found very little metal -- good or bad. The place had been pounded.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

You say:

" .... The fact that permission is left to the discretion of the individual park supervisor ..."

Don't forget, this "fact" that you cite, might simply be, the "pressing question" you asked, to have even gotten such an answer, to begin with. In other words, I bet you 20 yrs. ago (because you're probably not the first in recent years), if you .... or anyone ... had simply gone, I bet no one would have cared. But given enough people "asking", then presto, "we must address this". In fact, maybe even in the current case of your own situation, you were the first, and simply precluded yourself.

Example: in my city, someone new to our town (just moved here) took it upon himself to go ask at city hall "can I metal detect in central park?". He found someone to tell him "no" (lets, for the moment, make that analogous to your "not in the campgrounds" answer). This new md'r promptly spread the word "the parks here are off-limits". What was odd though is, that none of us old-timers had ever had a problem before. In fact, it had never even occurred to us, that we need to "ask", to begin with. So now we're faced with this "new" information. What do we do? Do we assume "nonsense, no one ever bothered me before, so obviously he just got some desk-bound clerk to say "no" ?

Anyhow, whatever's done in your case, is done. If it were me, I would simply detect, barring any written rule that says otherwise. Certainly the park's dept rules are posted somewhere (on their website, etc...). If it hadn't specifically said "no detectors in the campground", then I'd have just gone.

 

[AC1955]

What I have done with Massachusetts towns (not state parks) is I call the local police dept. I ask "are there any specific laws pertaining to MD on city/town property". Yes or no answer. Do not ask permission, do not talk about filling holes or digging. Just keep it simple. The less info you offer, the more positive the outcome I've found.

Hope this helps.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

ac1955, I've heard of this tactic of .......if a person feels they MUST ask a live person, to ask it in the way you say: To phrase it in a way where the burden of proof is on them, to cite such an actual rule. Eg.: "are there any laws regarding metal detectors here?". You would *think* that if there were no specific rules (which there usually isn't) that they would therefore not have anything to cite. And would therefore answer your question with a "no".

However, I have heard of persons using this way of phrasing, only to get a "no you can't do that" (as if they had just asked permission, which they didn't!). And if you object, and say "but where is that written?", they can cite anything they want that they think morphs to apply to your question. Because let's face it: Even though they may never have given the matter a moment's thought before you came in, there is a connotation that is inherent with metal detecting (in some person's minds anyhow), that .... of course ..... you will have to "dig". So even though you didn't mention it, there is some people who have that mental image, and might still say "no", or answer your question with something like "we don't allow digging" (even though you never mentioned digging).

Have you ever encountered answers like this? And another question: Could you, instead of doing that, just look up those town's laws for yourself (to see if, as you say, it's silent on the subject), by looking at their website? Or the city codes and charters which is probably at city hall somewhere for public viewing?