Meters or Knobs?

[BuckleBoy]

It has been said that there are two types of detectorists.

1. The beep/dig guys

2. The ones who use the meter on their machine to decide what they dig


I belong to the first group. If I hunted in areas of heavy modern trash, I would be cursing and swearing, and perhaps wish I had a meter...*perhaps* But in all the different types of places I hunt, only once or twice have I been overwhelmed enough to have Meter Fantasies.

I guess the odd thing about the "two types" is this: Folks who start in one category rarely go from that one category to the other. Beep/Diggers will likely stay Beep/Diggers, and those that let the meter help decide what they dig seldom go back to non-metered machines--with the exception of those that own and use more than one or two machines.

The advantages of the meter seem to be greatest in areas of high amounts of modern trash, or sites where there would be lots of fruitless digging otherwise. Depth meter is also helpful in places where newer finds are shallow and older finds lie beneath them. (Although many of us beep/diggers can tell the approximate depth of an item through knob twirling, pinpointing, lifting the loop, and voodoo.

I've heard that someone who uses a meter actually saves time. Well...I guess that depends on what type of hunter you are. I've hunted with folks that stood and pushed buttons and swiped a target from 10 different angles trying to get their target ID to "lock" at an agreeable spot. By that time I've already recovered two targets.

I want to make it clear that I'm not bashing metered machines, or their users. I've used metered machines on hunts before--but it just felt like...I wasn't an active participant in metal detecting--similar to the feeling of driving an automatic transmission instead of a stick-shift. I also felt like I wasn't using my ears and brain as much as I looked at the numbers and depth reading. I felt more disconnected from my surroundings since I was tied to looking at the control box more than I usually do. (And the time outdoors with nature is one of the Big reasons I love this hobby.) These were just my impressions of metered detectors after several hunts... so I stuck with unmetered analog.

I feel that it may be Too easy to rely solely on a meter for a beginner using a beginner machine--and the low end models like BH and the Ace don't really give you much more than the meter to rely on. Yes, there is tone ID--and that is better to lean on...but these users will probably stick with metered models as they move toward higher-end machines.

When I first started detecting, there were virtually NO low-end models with meters. Now there are. And the popularity and the amount of design engineering and advertising that has gone into promoting the Ace 250 for example--and the product placement of the BH's at Radio Shacks and Walmarts makes me wonder if the market is "grooming" us for the meter.

I feel like the meter is gradually pushing the knob to the fringe of existence--perhaps this is incorrect, but it feels like that has been the trend during the past two decades--although one company that is holding fast to the knob is Tesoro.


I'd like to hear your ideas and comments. Which type of hunter are you, and why? Did you ever cross over from meter to knob, or vice versa? Do you think the knob will go the way of the dinosaur? I know that there are members here who have tried many types of detectors--and the "cross over" question may be a moot point for you--but with all your experience I'm interested in your responses too.



Regards,



Buckleboy

 

[pookie-princess of rust]

i'm a meter user.

 

[Coin Digger]

As I get older and all the rock concerts of my youth catch up to me I've crossed over to metered machines, it's just one more piece of information that helps me determine weather to dig.
I think even metered machines have distinctive sounds, so sound still plays a big part of it for me.

 

[Michigan Badger]

Wow! That's a big writeup! You're starting to get as long as me (well, almost).

I came from the beep & dig generation (60's). We learned to distinguish sounds even with those all-metal mode only lunchbox machines.

But most high end machines today are greatly superior to most of those old timers.

Will the non-meter sound machines ever become obsolete? That's a tuff one to answer. I'd have to say eventually probably yes. That will most likely be a long way off though.

As most know I'm more of a non-meter sound hunter. But since right now I'm living in an area where the last decent really old coin died of loneliness years ago, I'm entertaining myself by testing detectors.

If I lived down south where most of the good stuff is I probably would only be using the Sovereign GT and Tesoro Tejon (or Silver with 10x12 concentric). But what the heck, I'm not missing out on anything here, that's for sure.

The Explorer XS is very very deep. Maybe even deeper than anything else I've tested. It has found stuff my other machines missed. BUT, maybe they found stuff the XS would have missed. It can go both ways.

I hope to discover several things about the Explorer. First I want to know if it will consistently find the stuff the others miss in trashy areas. Next I want to know just how accurate the Explorer meter really is. I'm told it's even most trustworthy than sounds but I'll have to see that consistently to believe it.

But I'll tell you this, if somebody contacted me and said I have this old Victorian mansion that is virgin hunting grounds and will you join me--my XS would go into the closet and my Tesoro and me would be on our way!

Maybe eventually I'll feel that way about the XS but Tesoro has proved itself many times over and old habits are hard to break.

Badger

 

[willie d]

I started out 8 1/2 years ago with a Garrett GTAx 400 (a meter machine). Almost a year ago I bought my Tiger Shark (knob machine). I decided to get a back up to my Garrett. I decided since I pretty much dig everything anyway, a meter was no longer necessary. I was happy with my Tiger Shark, so I figured I'd get the Silver Umax (another knob machine). I haven't picked up the GTAx 400 in over a year. It has become the back up.

 

[Ray S ECenFL]

I have both. Use the Whites XLT most of the time. Just can not get use to the beep and dig unit. Use it as my back up machine.

Get one with a meter. You will never go back.

Ray S

 

[EDDE]

ill take door #1 alex

 

[SwampHunter]

I am a bit of both.

For quick hunts, hunts around playground equipment or scout trips I like a metered machine. I have a Garrett Ace250 right now that I use. I also have the 9x12 coil for it as well. I have been seriously thinking about upgrading this to the White's MXT to where I can get more depth.

For slow hunts for relics I love a knob machine. I just bought the Fisher 1265x and love it already. I can tell this will be my most favorite knob machine.

 

[JOe L]

I am also in the 3rd group. Meter on one, knob on another group. I find advantages to each.

 

[deepskyal]

I guess I'm a hybrid.
I started out with a nonmetered machine. I don't consider the intensity meter on my old White's 3000 any kind of asset. It merely worked in conjunction with the tone.

But..I also dug everything. I did learn to skip tones that were definitely junk and didn't dig those that I could swing my detector a foot off the ground and still get a solid signal and dig down an additional foot for a beer can....You learn that trick pretty quickly when you're relying on one sense alone.

But I also seem to remember not nearly the amount of trash I encounter now. Even out in the middle of nowhere, I find pull tabs, caps, alum.foil, cans, ...trash!

I tried the tone ID on the DFX and it drove me nuts listening to all the squeaking and squawking...I stick to just the single tone.

But I cheat now and use the meter when I get a questionable tone. I've been finding dimes and pennies in really trashy areas with broken signals I would not normally have dug, save a consistant number on my VDI. All the tin foil in the area, even with the 5" coil, makes it maddening to ID by tone alone.

I still like looking around, taking in the sites as I detect...but I still have a keen ear that when I do come across an iffy but somewhat stable beep....I use my meter to confirm my gut feeling.

Areas around here are getting harder and harder to find without the accompanying mounds of trash. If I want to find anything without digging every single questionable sound...I'm gonna cheat.

Al

 

[greydigger]

Well I started with a beep machine with a bogus meter and working tot-lots dug lots of hair pins & nails.
Now with upscale meter I never dig those. I do have to say with old machine I dug a pop top and checking the hole again, found a gold bracelet. I think the analogy of stick shift to automatics is viable.
Grey

 

[pennyfarmer]

I also fall in the "Both" category.


I have also started out with a "Knob" machine. My first machine was a Tesoro Bandito. I was able to accurately distinguish between a dime penny and quarter. It was a very sweet machine. Right now I have a new Explorer SE pro, Soverign XS (with sunray meter), and a Tesoro Sidewinder.

Sometimes I am in the mood to dig all signals hoping for a find that will surprise me. Sometimes I am out for high signals. With a knob machine I would get the same feelings and just turn up the discrimination.

I enjoy the SE metered machine, it gives me new insight on my targets. In fact I am still learning the SE so I get to dig all of the signals. .

As for the knob going away, I think it will happen but not without some of us shedding at least one tear. I know I was kind of upset when Tesoro got rid of the analog metered machine Toltec. I think the needle gives more information than a digital signal, but without the "Cool" factor.

I would say that any new folks who are hunting a old area with a metered machine try to cover up the screen and just dig all the targets. You will be suprised what the square pulltab signal might be. I have found many valuable items in that range.

 

[X-Terra70_TreasureHunter]

Hi i use both methods, its just according to the mood im in
and where im hunting.

#1 out in the Country i use the Beep/ Dig Method
#2 in Town i use the meter and check the vdi/tid cause of noises

Dave

 

[SC_hunter]

Seems to me the detectors are following in the same footsteps as Amateur Radio. When I started out, the radios were bulky and mainly "tube" operated. Then, times changed...circuitry got smaller and more advanced and the time of Morse code using a key faded into the background. Why sit and pound on a key when you could at that time get a computer to send "perfect" code that another computer could read 20 times as fast....Yes, there are still a few that pound on the key but they are far and few between.

I for one like metered machines....I own both types and now using a water machine that I just picked up and it has only one tone...metal. At the beach, it does extremely well...picks up everything and that is what I want at the beach. On land, I like the "idea" of what I'm digging and yes, I might have missed a few good targets but I have found more by not diddling around on one target for extended time. Times change and so do detectors and folks who use the detectors.
Just my opinion

 

[EARTHLING]

i have tried to use metered machines and the only one the i have ever owned that had a type of meter is the bounty hunter TIME RANGER.... it is the only one; my first; and i really loved it.... i might get another just for back up at some point...... i have never liked screen type detectors cause i am a little rough on them anyway.... BUT... i will put my SHADOW X5 up against an explorer se pro any day of the week.... I DO own the following "tectors"

1. Troy Shadow X5

2. Discovery GOLDTRAX

3. Minelab GPX 4500

4. getting a Surfscanners GOLDSCAN 5C as soon as MR. BILL has more

 

[BuckleBoy]

Wow! That's a big writeup! You're starting to get as long as me (well, almost).

I came from the beep & dig generation (60's). We learned to distinguish sounds even with those all-metal mode only lunchbox machines.

But most high end machines today are greatly superior to most of those old timers.

Will the non-meter sound machines ever become obsolete? That's a tuff one to answer. I'd have to say eventually probably yes. That will most likely be a long way off though.

As most know I'm more of a non-meter sound hunter. But since right now I'm living in an area where the last decent really old coin died of loneliness years ago, I'm entertaining myself by testing detectors.

If I lived down south where most of the good stuff is I probably would only be using the Sovereign GT and Tesoro Tejon (or Silver with 10x12 concentric). But what the heck, I'm not missing out on anything here, that's for sure.

The Explorer XS is very very deep. Maybe even deeper than anything else I've tested. It has found stuff my other machines missed. BUT, maybe they found stuff the XS would have missed. It can go both ways.

I hope to discover several things about the Explorer. First I want to know if it will consistently find the stuff the others miss in trashy areas. Next I want to know just how accurate the Explorer meter really is. I'm told it's even most trustworthy than sounds but I'll have to see that consistently to believe it.

But I'll tell you this, if somebody contacted me and said I have this old Victorian mansion that is virgin hunting grounds and will you join me--my XS would go into the closet and my Tesoro and me would be on our way!

Maybe eventually I'll feel that way about the XS but Tesoro has proved itself many times over and old habits are hard to break.

Badger

Thanks for your reply, Badger. I value your opinion highly. I think your comments about the Tesoro uMax in this thread as well as others speaks well for the Knob as opposed to the meter. (See my comments below as well...)

I wonder how much of it is habit--which machines we like, what we like about them, how hard it is to change for some of us... I know that by the time I've mastered a machine, I've lived in it's World for a while--and I am resistant to change. I want to know what a machine's limitations are--and few of us tend to think in those terms. We care more about a machine's advantages and strengths.

I guess I'm a hybrid.
I started out with a nonmetered machine. I don't consider the intensity meter on my old White's 3000 any kind of asset. It merely worked in conjunction with the tone.

But..I also dug everything. I did learn to skip tones that were definitely junk and didn't dig those that I could swing my detector a foot off the ground and still get a solid signal and dig down an additional foot for a beer can....You learn that trick pretty quickly when you're relying on one sense alone.

But I also seem to remember not nearly the amount of trash I encounter now. Even out in the middle of nowhere, I find pull tabs, caps, alum.foil, cans, ...trash!

I tried the tone ID on the DFX and it drove me nuts listening to all the squeaking and squawking...I stick to just the single tone.

But I cheat now and use the meter when I get a questionable tone. I've been finding dimes and pennies in really trashy areas with broken signals I would not normally have dug, save a consistant number on my VDI. All the tin foil in the area, even with the 5" coil, makes it maddening to ID by tone alone.

I still like looking around, taking in the sites as I detect...but I still have a keen ear that when I do come across an iffy but somewhat stable beep....I use my meter to confirm my gut feeling.

Areas around here are getting harder and harder to find without the accompanying mounds of trash. If I want to find anything without digging every single questionable sound...I'm gonna cheat.

Al

Al,

I don't think of it as cheating... If you're on a site with tons of trash, a meter is a genuine tool. I've been frustrated before with my "old school" detectors, but that's all part of the package. Any detector can be frustrating--but with some of the newer detectors, they mask their limitations well. What I'm *not* hearing bugs me much more. I was always frustrated with the types of beeps on the DFX and XLT--heck, and even the Eagle Spectrum. In many cases the signals sound broken to me--and I can go with my old Fisher and get a good tone (provided the discrimination is low). But you do have my sympathy on the trashy sites. Either dig yourself to death, or selectively dig. One of my biggest frustrations is pewter buttons, lead, and gold items in trashy, aluminum-filled sites. Tough!

I enjoy the SE metered machine, it gives me new insight on my targets. In fact I am still learning the SE so I get to dig all of the signals. .

I would say that any new folks who are hunting a old area with a metered machine try to cover up the screen and just dig all the targets. You will be suprised what the square pulltab signal might be. I have found many valuable items in that range.

Pennyfarmer,

I wanted to reply to these two ideas you had, especially... I think that over-reliance on the meter for a beginner can be tragic in terms of missed items--and it's one of my concerns. I think you have the right approach with the SE--and I know it'll pay off in the long run. The learning curve for that machine is pretty steep.

Seems to me the detectors are following in the same footsteps as Amateur Radio. When I started out, the radios were bulky and mainly "tube" operated. Then, times changed...circuitry got smaller and more advanced and the time of Morse code using a key faded into the background. Why sit and pound on a key when you could at that time get a computer to send "perfect" code that another computer could read 20 times as fast....Yes, there are still a few that pound on the key but they are far and few between.

I for one like metered machines....I own both types and now using a water machine that I just picked up and it has only one tone...metal. At the beach, it does extremely well...picks up everything and that is what I want at the beach. On land, I like the "idea" of what I'm digging and yes, I might have missed a few good targets but I have found more by not diddling around on one target for extended time. Times change and so do detectors and folks who use the detectors.
Just my opinion

You're right that times change... But I also think there is a mistake in saying that things always go from less "advanced" to more "advanced" or developed. Sometimes folks fall into this trap when they talk about the history of art, or music for example... But a piece of Renaissance art or music is no less "advanced" than something more modern--it's just different.

I think most detectors out there do basically the same thing--with some differences (VLF, PI, etc.)...the main difference is how much computer is there. And the computer doesn't change the basic way a detector operates--it just changes how those signals are interpreted. I have yet to see a whole lot of advancement in detectors in the past 15 years with the exception of how many more computerized components get placed in control boxes. The effectiveness of multiple frequencies for ID purposes is perhaps the only significant thing I can think of.

i have tried to use metered machines and the only one the i have ever owned that had a type of meter is the bounty hunter TIME RANGER.... it is the only one; my first; and i really loved it.... i might get another just for back up at some point...... i have never liked screen type detectors cause i am a little rough on them anyway.... BUT... i will put my SHADOW X5 up against an explorer se pro any day of the week.... I DO own the following "tectors"

1. Troy Shadow X5

2. Discovery GOLDTRAX

3. Minelab GPX 4500

4. getting a Surfscanners GOLDSCAN 5C as soon as MR. BILL has more

Yeah, that's a good point--the screen messing up... In some machines, this would render them much worse in terms of performance...others would be o.k. I like being able to not worry about seeing a screen on mine, or eating up batteries with a backlight as it gets dark.

-Buckles

 

[roberttice]

I am still relatively new ad MD'ing. I bought a used GTAX 400 a couple of years ago, but it didn't pin point well and put it away. Last year I was given an old Garrett S-1 American that was heavy but it could still find things with it. Last week I went to my local MD store and traded my two Garretts towards a Cibola. I have found more with my Cibola in a week than I found with my other two detectors. I keep the knob between iron and nickel. I dig everything but I turn the knob to see if it's a coin. If I move the knob to tab I think my machine will lose most gold targets. Today in an hour Half I found 80 cents in a small park in my development. So I like my non metered machine better.

 

[Dman]

I use a meter machine. It depends on where I hunt. If it is a trashy area I use my meter. If I am in a civil war site I dig every target.
Dman

 

[BuckleBoy]

I am still relatively new ad MD'ing. I bought a used GTAX 400 a couple of years ago, but it didn't pin point well and put it away. Last year I was given an old Garrett S-1 American that was heavy but it could still find things with it. Last week I went to my local MD store and traded my two Garretts towards a Cibola. I have found more with my Cibola in a week than I found with my other two detectors. I keep the knob between iron and nickel. I dig everything but I turn the knob to see if it's a coin. If I move the knob to tab I think my machine will lose most gold targets. Today in an hour Half I found 80 cents in a small park in my development. So I like my non metered machine better.

The newest member of the Iron Brigade (my team of detectorists here), Bonzaibrandi, bought a Cibola and in six months has a display case that you would not believe. I'm quite impressed with that machine. There was a spot where there were Zinc jar lids Everywhere...and she didn't dig a single one with it--she said that they were a different sound from the coins and relics. (At the end of the day, she dug two though--since she felt sorry for us because we'd dug 20 apiece! )

That's a fun machine to use--and the stock coil on it is a great one.


-Buckles

 

[seagullplayer]

The meter machine just makes the hobby much more fun to me. I will never be a "serious" MD user. I don't get to go very often, and if the machine can help me keep from digging nails and cans, more power to it.
If I every got to the point where the tone of the machine told me what I was digging, I would forget it between outings.

I would think that for every really serious owner, really putting their machine to the test, there have got to be a 1000 weekend coin shooters like me out there...

Maybe it's closer to 10K to one?

Yes, I have an Ace 250