Montezuma claim Julia had

[azdave35]

anyone here know where julia thomas's Montezuma claim was?

 

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[somehiker]

If it was part of the "Montezuma Group" of claims.... up near Morristown.

Montezuma Group of Claims, Vulture District | Arizona Geological Survey Mining Data

http://docs.azgs.az.gov/OnlineAccessMineFiles/MapColl/665-2-01/665-2-01_0004.pdf

View attachment Montezuma grou.bmp

From.....The Arizona Geological Survey | Home

From the same site:

View attachment pitmine location.bmp

I've circled the location of the "pit mine", so far as I know, in red.

 

[azdave35]

If it was part of the "Montezuma Group" of claims.... up near Morristown.

Montezuma Group of Claims, Vulture District | Arizona Geological Survey Mining Data

http://docs.azgs.az.gov/OnlineAccessMineFiles/MapColl/665-2-01/665-2-01_0004.pdf

View attachment 1326661

From.....The Arizona Geological Survey | Home

From the same site:

View attachment 1326646

I've circled the location of the "pit mine", so far as I know, in red.

thanks s.h....i've actually been in that area about 10 years ago digging chrysocolla....i had no idea julia had a claim there...looks like its a patented claim...i see a.l. flagg's name on the paperwork...he must have owned it at one time

 

[somehiker]

It's also within the Vulture district....so could be what the "highgrading" rumours , re: Waltz's gold were based on.
Not likely she made the original claim prior to Waltz's death though. Must have been sometime after that.

 

[azdave35]

It's also within the Vulture district....so could be what the "highgrading" rumours , re: Waltz's gold were based on.
Not likely she made the original clai prior to Waltz's death though. Must have been sometime after that.

if her name is on it we can look it up online....maricopa county records are online back to 1871

 

[somehiker]

if her name is on it we can look it up online....maricopa county records are online back to 1871

If she did have this claim, could her interest in the area have been as a result of Waltz's previous prospecting and partnerships in the Bradshaws, and location information he may have shared with her ?
Could be worth digging a litlle deeper into this part of the story.

 

[azdave35]

If she did have this claim, could her interest in the area have been as a result of Waltz's previous prospecting and partnerships in the Bradshaws, and location information he may have shared with her ?
Could be worth digging a litlle deeper into this part of the story.

i found it.its under julia schaffer....i'm not sure how to put a pdf file here but see if this works...these old docs are in cursive writing and hard to decipher
View attachment 18940002612.pdf

 

[azdave35]

i found it.its under julia schaffer....i'm not sure how to put a pdf file here but see if this works...these old docs are in cursive writing and hard to decipher
View attachment 1326690

looks like it was recorded in 1894

 

[somehiker]

So....actually in the "Salt River Mining District", south of the Salt River and north of the Pima Reservation.
"about six miles west of the (Kayrine ?----Kyrene?/Phoenix Maricopa railway station) ".......puts it west of Guadalupe and probably on the S/E flank of South Mountain somewhere.

 

[azdave35]

So....actually in the "Salt River Mining District", south of the Salt River and north of the Pima Reservation.
"about six miles west of the (Kayrine ?----Kyrene?/Phoenix Maricopa railway station) ".......puts it west of Guadalupe and probably on the S/E flank of South Mountain somewhere.

lol..you did better at deciphering it than i did...i couldnt make heads or tails of it....all i could make out was julia and hubby albert's name and the date 1894..were you able to find the name of the claim on it?
there are three pages of the document..were you able to view all three?....on one page i thought i saw something about it being located 1/4 mile from the mammoth mine which is on the page you posted

 

[somehiker]

Julia's and Thomas' cliam is mainly on the second page, with the first and last describing other claims belonging to different people.
The "Montezuma" name appears near the bottom of page 2.

View attachment Julia's claim.bmp

Therefore, the "Montezuma claim Group" and Julia's "Montezuma Mine" are two different ventures in widely separated places.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Morning, a slight remark, in Mexico all lines are drawn on a N/S, E/W orientation. ATT Roy.

 

[Oroblanco]

Morning, a slight remark, in Mexico al lines are drawn on a N/S, E/W orientation. ATT Roy.

Is that magnetic N-S, E-W or true N-S-E-W? Thanks in advance, and as this point also relates to Spanish/Mexican mines in the southwest US, it is of some importance.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

True Oro, since mag roams around quite a bit. All Mexican mines filings are given 60 days to have a certified mine surveyor complete his work. A far as I know it has always been this way. At least since the 1800's

 

[sgtfda]

Wayne T has been to the site.

 

[azdave35]

Wayne T has been to the site.

long time no see sarge..hope everything is going well for you....are you talking about the site by morristown?

 

[somehiker]

Wayne T has been to the site.

Looks interesting....know anything about it ?

 

[Matthew Roberts]

A few years ago I wrote an article for a Phoenix magazine and Julia's "Montazuma" mining claim was a part of that article. Here is a short excerpt from that article describing the claim and where it was located.

A strange and unexplained occurrence came to pass in February of 1894. On the 23rd of that month, Albert Schaffer, Julia and Albert’s brother Englebert Schaffer filed a mining claim in Phoenix on the “Montazuma” mine. The mine was located on the south side of the Salt River Mountains about 2 miles south of the main range, about 1 ½ miles north of the Pima Indian Reservation and about 6 miles west of the Kyrene-Phoenix and Maricopa Rail Road Station.

Those Salt River Mountains are today known as the South Phoenix Mountains with the radio and television towers atop South Mountain directly south of Phoenix, Arizona. The claim was 1500 ft. x 600 ft. of a lode gold deposit with a 950 ft. ledge of gold bearing reddish rock situated in the center of the boundaries of the claim. The strange thing about this mining claim is neither Albert nor his brother were particularly skilled in prospecting or mining. Exactly how this rich discovery was made by the Schaffer’s so close to a city of almost 6,000 people without anyone else knowing it had been there is a mystery.

It has been suggested that a Pima Indian who had been converted by Julia and Albert showed them the deposit that had been covered and hidden for many years. No other explanation of how a gold deposit could have gone unnoticed by experienced mining men that close to Phoenix for decades has been offered. It is believed the Schaffer’s quickly sold the mine to a Phoenix businessman who had the capital to develop the operation. No record has been found of how much the Schaffer’s might have been paid for the claim but it seems it was not very much. The mine was eventually patented and produced at a slow rate for many years as other much richer gold mines were discovered in those Salt River Mountains.

As late as the year 2010 the Schaffer’s Montezuma mine site could still be seen along the North side of East Pecos Road and the 2nd Street alignment in the community of Ahwatukee, Arizona being operated as a sand and gravel operation.

Matthew

 

[azdave35]

A few years ago I wrote an article for a Phoenix magazine and Julia's "Montazuma" mining claim was a part of that article. Here is a short excerpt from that article describing the claim and where it was located.

A strange and unexplained occurrence came to pass in February of 1894. On the 23rd of that month, Albert Schaffer, Julia and Albert’s brother Englebert Schaffer filed a mining claim in Phoenix on the “Montazuma” mine. The mine was located on the south side of the Salt River Mountains about 2 miles south of the main range, about 1 ½ miles north of the Pima Indian Reservation and about 6 miles west of the Kyrene-Phoenix and Maricopa Rail Road Station.

Those Salt River Mountains are today known as the South Phoenix Mountains with the radio and television towers atop South Mountain directly south of Phoenix, Arizona. The claim was 1500 ft. x 600 ft. of a lode gold deposit with a 950 ft. ledge of gold bearing reddish rock situated in the center of the boundaries of the claim. The strange thing about this mining claim is neither Albert nor his brother were particularly skilled in prospecting or mining. Exactly how this rich discovery was made by the Schaffer’s so close to a city of almost 6,000 people without anyone else knowing it had been there is a mystery.

It has been suggested that a Pima Indian who had been converted by Julia and Albert showed them the deposit that had been covered and hidden for many years. No other explanation of how a gold deposit could have gone unnoticed by experienced mining men that close to Phoenix for decades has been offered. It is believed the Schaffer’s quickly sold the mine to a Phoenix businessman who had the capital to develop the operation. No record has been found of how much the Schaffer’s might have been paid for the claim but it seems it was not very much. The mine was eventually patented and produced at a slow rate for many years as other much richer gold mines were discovered in those Salt River Mountains.

As late as the year 2010 the Schaffer’s Montezuma mine site could still be seen along the North side of East Pecos Road and the 2nd Street alignment in the community of Ahwatukee, Arizona being operated as a sand and gravel operation.

Matthew

by firebird lake?

 

[Matthew Roberts]

azdave35

A couple miles west of Firebird Lake. Take East Pecos Road off the I-10 freeway and go West. At 2nd Street (the 2nd street alignment as there is no actual 2nd street there) look on the north side and you will see a sand and gravel pit, that is the site of Julia's Montazuma Claim.

Matthew