My coin dealer stopped buying scrap gold.

[Darth Walker]

My coin dealer in Texas does not buy scrap gold any more. He said the State passed harsh regulations and that know they have to take your finger prints, picture, id, and register with the state every piece. He said it is not worthy and tha just the paper work is overkilling and that they are not going to hire extra staff for this. Again the gov messin up. I will just sell in the other market then. F the gov.

 

[NHBandit]

Just this morning I took some scrap to the metal yard. Aluminum, steel, batteries, etc they require a thumbprint & a plate number but still pay in cash. For the Copper I had to wait for them to mail a check.

 

[wingmaster]

You could run a political campaign just by saying your going to get rid of all the BS laws on the books, of course none of the politicians want to do that they would rather make some new BS law and sit back grinning and say I done that. They would also be proud of it of course because their just that dumb. HH

 

[Owassokie]

Until your gold is stolen and the police catch the guy cashing it through is ID and fingerprints...

It should be treated like any other pawn transaction, where there is a high probability of stolen goods.

Because the bad guys are going to give their ID and fingerprints so they can sell their stolen goods to a reputable dealer?!?! Come on. This is just more red tape and regulations that will hurt small business. I am a bit surprised that one of our more freedom loving states has created this new regulation (tax).

 

[Pete_Iredale]

Because the bad guys are going to give their ID and fingerprints so they can sell their stolen goods to a reputable dealer?!?! (tax).

When my house was broken into, not only did the morons sell my video games less than a quarter mile away, but they used their own driver's license to do it. Literally the first place I looked after talking to the police, and there were all my games. Criminals, especially junkies, are far dumber than you are giving them credit for.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm a Texan. Texas is a freedom loving state as long as the voters are given a voice. But when policy is left in the hands of the bureaucrats, they are not much different than the ones in every other state. I'm sure this is due (ostensibly) to the rash of copper wire theft and similar crimes. But the bottom line is, the government believes all wealth, from the fruits of labor to precious metals to even fiat currency, belongs to the system first, and it is their prerogative to let us glean whatever scraps they deign to allow to escape their clutches. Find a way to avoid a tax gouging, they call it a loophole. Confiscated wealth is called revenue. Laws piled upon laws that are designed to slowly separate us from our money, our freedom, and our self determination.

I'll stop there, believe me, I could go on and on. But I don't want to wear out my soapbox. I might need it in a few months.

 

[BARKER]

Hi; I usually have a term to group these Laws and the way I feel about them into one neat little package. It's called the Golden Banana view. I'll leave it to your imaginations. PEACE:RONB

 

[Nitric]

Hi; I usually have a term to group these Laws and the way I feel about them into one neat little package. It's called the Golden Banana view. I'll leave it to your imaginations. PEACE:RONB

Is it the Golden banana view? Or the golden banana movement?

I think I know your meaning!
LOL I know this isn't what you meant! I went to look it up and this is what I found! And of course? I started laughing! I know, I know, I need to grow up! I can't though!
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=golden banana

 

[OWK]

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

--B. Franklin

 

[GlenDronach]

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

--B. Franklin

You can still buy and sell US gov't bullion without filing any tax forms, you're good to go.

 

[Nitric]

You can still buy and sell US gov't bullion without filing any tax forms, you're good to go.

I'm not so sure you are completely right. Why can't I sell 200 silver dollars without paying tax? It's gov issued coin? There are limits to amounts, and anything turned in over $600 and you get a check? You might have to fill out some forms? Or are supposed to!!!!! And yes, you can buy and sell gov bullion all you want with out tax forms.(except sales tax) As long as your not making a profit!!! I might be wrong too!

 

[Darth Walker]

The fact that the dealer does not make you fill out tax form does not mean you are excempt from paying taxes to the IRS. If you make a profit coins are considered collectables and a 30% on the gain applies. It is not fair but it us the law.

 

[Darth Walker]

Good think I have never found a silver coin.LOL

 

[Cobbolicious]

All these laws do? Is turn honest people into criminals! By definition.

If I have a huge collection, or say the rich neighbor lady sells something? Who in the He!! wants all their private info into the hands of anyone? I don't have stolen items, but I'm not giving my finger prints and all my personal info! What if the dealer isn't careful with the info? If I get broken into and stolen from? Can I hold the dealer responsible for not being careful with my info? Just to name a few possibilities! This stuff is crazy!!!! And people support it! "it's what's best for you" Because this is helping "you"..

Like your mentioning above, It's making a lot of underground or illegal, by definition, type dealing(that wasn't considered illegal a few years back). I'm staying kind of brief! So, some of this may make no sense to some. It's BIG money! And if you have the guts to play the game? You can make a lot! I don't have the guts!

Just wait? At some point coin dealers will have to do it for buying anything! It's already there in some areas! If your a dealer and don't comply?(because of beliefs) You chance losing everything you own,and your business, even though you didn't do anything illegal, other than to not agree with some stupid personal info collecting! But the guy at the flea market can bypass all laws, pay no taxes,have no license, and get slapped on wrist if caught?

Signed-------Ticked off ex-dealer and gold buyer that does not agree with new laws!!!!! They are not for protecting you and your stuff!

Please cite the "definition" that makes honest people criminals. The recordkeeping requirements do not apply to transactions as between ordinary private parties--only to transactions involving a licensed pawnbroker. Thus, since violation of the recordkeeping requirements is a crime under Georgia law (a misdemeanor per O.C.G.A. § 44-12-137(a)), you must be referring to licensed pawnbrokers who engage in transactions without adhering to the law's requirements because the pledgor does not wish to be identified, and is willing to pay a premium therefore. This is the very scenario the law contemplates and regards as abhorrent to honest commerce.

 

[StevoCBR]

Because the bad guys are going to give their ID and fingerprints so they can sell their stolen goods to a reputable dealer?!?! Come on. This is just more red tape and regulations that will hurt small business. I am a bit surprised that one of our more freedom loving states has created this new regulation (tax).

Exactly, just like guns, more laws simply hurt honest people, not criminals and the underworld....but then again we are the target...good thread

 

[Nitric]

Please cite the "definition" that makes honest people criminals. The recordkeeping requirements do not apply to transactions as between ordinary private parties--only to transactions involving a licensed pawnbroker. Thus, since violation of the recordkeeping requirements is a crime under Georgia law (a misdemeanor per O.C.G.A. § 44-12-137(a)), you must be referring to licensed pawnbrokers who engage in transactions without adhering to the law's requirements because the pledgor does not wish to be identified, and is willing to pay a premium therefore. This is the very scenario the law contemplates and regards as abhorrent to honest commerce.

We might be missing each others points......When I say it's going to turn what use to be honest people into criminals. Is the idea, that people will hide things because they value their privacy.Meaning transactions. I'm not just talking about GA law! I'm actually referring to what I saw in Ohio and can happen anywhere!

Some people that have a huge collection, or that want to sell a few items, do not want a pawn broker,coin dealer, or anyone else to have their personal information. I know this from experience and dealing with very large collections, or very private people, doesn't mean they stole it either, If I ask grandma for all her info and thumb print, or anyone, they feel like a criminal, it's bad for business and scares people away, even if honest. If you want to talk about for tax record? That should not be the shops responsibility to keep record (of their customers), other than for their own taxes. The individual should be responsible for their own taxes. So, when an honest person does not want their personal information on record(because who knows who will end up with it, or how guarded it will be) they will start moving things underground to guys that are willing to take that chance. The guy that is moving for them is now considered criminal, Because he may value privacy also. This might be your Flea market guy even, with no license.

The fingerprints? for what reason? If you have a DL then who needs fingerprint records?

And no, in some states, it is illegal to set up at a flea market with a sign saying "I BUY SCRAP GOLD" with no license. If you put that sign up in a coin shop? You need a different license. Why all the license's?

Also, what you mentioned above, may be a misdemeanor? What they are pushing now is"Asset forfeiture" from that misdemeanor. I know of people personally that have lost their business's and all their personal collections at their homes from really nothing! Also, before even being convicted of anything, either way? it takes tons of money and maybe years to get it back, even if you can.

I'm not even talking about a pawnbroker! I know very few people with a pawn broker license. The op was talking about a coin shop, I believe....I might be wrong. Even then doesn't really change my view.
That is sometimes a completely different license. There are fed, state, and local laws on some of this stuff,and license's. Scales even have to be checked and calibrated . by some counties every so often.
Maybe I'm not sure what your getting at.

Also, I've been around a little....Not all pawn and coin guys are Honest good people! I sure don't want to give them my information.Maybe their son or grand kid goes through records, or a bad employee, when no one is looking. Next thing you know? After selling them some good coins or jewelry? They are driving past your house to see if your home, or one of their cronies are! Think I'm making it up? We are talking about gold and silver! One case that I know, the one guy was the son of the man that owned an alarm business, and installed home alarms systems in the area. Put the two together? Bingo, The ONLY reason they were caught, one was bragging in a local bar. Hardly anything was recovered. Because they knew the laws!!! The laws didn't locate any of that stuff.

If I didn't do anything wrong, I'm not giving out information. You prove I stole it! Not keep everything on file just in case I stole it. It's not right. And I'm not really sure why people support this kind of crap. Or if i can't prove it's mine, then I must have stole it, type laws being put into place.

Sry for all the ! it's easier for me to find when typing! lol I'm really not that excited! Just something to talk and think about. Gives me something to ramble about! lol I understand there are ways around all these laws,How your signs are worded, how much stuff is in your case that was purchased from the public, etc..... I know how to do all that too. But it shouldn't be like that. You should be able to open a coin shop. Pay your taxes, and leave the detective work up to the police! That's why we pay taxes, not keep records on potential criminals! There is enough paperwork,license's fee's,laws to follow, and headaches to an honest business as it is! Not to mention good customers lost, because they don't want to feel like a criminal when they sell you something.

 

[Darth Walker]

Agree with Nitric.

 

[Cobbolicious]

I see that you were not discussing pawnbrokers specifically, and my discussion was limited to the George code relating to pawnbrokers. Parallel provisions applicable to dealers in precious metals (subject to a broad numismatic exemption) are codified at O.C.G.A. § 43-37-6. I see your points relating to privacy, but of course these laws make it more difficult to sell stolen goods, driving the transactions underground and depressing resale values and financial incentives for theft. Personally, I don't have a problem leaving my information when selling precious metals, going to the doctor, banking, buying or selling a car, applying for a loan, signing a gym membership contract, enrolling in school, applying for a professional or driver's license, apologizing for that fender-bender, and the like. I think that commerce demands the free and open exchange of personal information for certain transactions. This requires trust, and there is a market for that, too. We see what happens when there's a data breach, like the Target case ($250 million in costs (Target Nears Settlement With MasterCard Over Data Breach - WSJ)). If I don't trust a merchant, I don't hand them my information. I'd rather give my fingerprints to a dealer I know than to sell to an underground dealer.

 

[Nitric]

I see that you were not discussing pawnbrokers specifically, and my discussion was limited to the George code relating to pawnbrokers. Parallel provisions applicable to dealers in precious metals (subject to a broad numismatic exemption) are codified at O.C.G.A. § 43-37-6. I see your points relating to privacy, but of course these laws make it more difficult to sell stolen goods, driving the transactions underground and depressing resale values and financial incentives for theft. Personally, I don't have a problem leaving my information when selling precious metals, going to the doctor, banking, buying or selling a car, applying for a loan, signing a gym membership contract, enrolling in school, applying for a professional or driver's license, apologizing for that fender-bender, and the like. I think that commerce demands the free and open exchange of personal information for certain transactions. This requires trust, and there is a market for that, too. We see what happens when there's a data breach, like the Target case ($250 million in costs (Target Nears Settlement With MasterCard Over Data Breach - WSJ)). If I don't trust a merchant, I don't hand them my information. I'd rather give my fingerprints to a dealer I know than to sell to an underground dealer.

No, this actually is not limited to pawn brokers. And depending how a coin shop has their sign, will change it in some areas...

Giving out information, is where we differ in a big way. I view it as, I'm free, I have done nothing wrong, I don't need to be watched. Others view it as...I've done nothing wrong so why do I care. Not sure if that's how you feel, I'm just saying in general.

No, this does not drive price down! Not at all in this case! The underground dealer can actually pay you more. Because he doesn't have to pay all the fees and do all the pushups, his overhead is lower. When buying from you. Now, when selling to you? He can sell to you cheaper because of not having overhead and costs,extra work.And may push down price if enough of them are out there? These type laws will and do, push the small guys out.

I'm not just talking about the super small guy, I'm talking about the middle of the road guy.

Bottom line? These type laws do not stop criminals! When there is this kind of money traded daily, someone will always step up and take the risk. The criminals that are stealing and moving big volume, do not go to a pawn shop. That's neighborhood kid stuff, or the druggy looking for a fix. They would get caught without a thumb print.

And yes! I value my privacy! When selling some coins or broken jewelry or even a big collection, it does not matter who I am. It should not matter. For what purpose?

I know we don't know each other and it is hard to kind of explain things on the computer. I was in it for a few years legally. I was around it for about 12 to 15 years. I have seen all kinds of things. I understand that people want to support some of these ideas for a good reason. I'm just not so sure they actually do anything. Maybe, because I also know all the ways around this stuff gives me a different view too.

 

[GA_Boy]

Is it the Golden banana view? Or the golden banana movement?

I think I know your meaning!
LOL I know this isn't what you meant! I went to look it up and this is what I found! And of course? I started laughing! I know, I know, I need to grow up! I can't though!

I'm not sure who said it first--------------A Government that is big enough to give you everything you need is also strong enough to take away everything you have.