My Grandpas Collection of Artifacts

[Charmin]

My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

These belonged to my Grandpa and my mother. Grandpa started looking for artifacts/arrowheads in the early 1960's and continued until his death in 1994. He had approx. 3000 artifacts at the time of his death. He and my mom would hunt for arrowheads on creeks, fields and the Arkansas River in Oklahoma, Kansas, and Missouri. He never knew the material or age on most of these but could tell you exactly where and when he found them. Mom was with him most of the time--usually he was waiting for her after school and they would go look for a couple of hours. He had access to lots of private land because he was an oilfield pumper and had many rancher friends who let him hunt. He was the greatest man!

My mom and I are trying to catalog some of these finds but we aren't sure of type/material/age and we need some help! I have three frames to start out with and was wondering if you all would help ID some of them? I know this is a lot to ask, but there are so many knowledgable people on here, and if you could help it would be appreciated!!

I want to especially find out about the corner tang knives--the material and age on these. I have looked online and there's not a lot of info about them. Grandpa found all three on the same gravel bar and in an area where the creek bank washed out.
Also, the "square bottom" points, are these Dickson's or Gary's? or is that even close?
There are pieces of pottery in some of the pictures that we would like to know about, too.

The coins, beads and buttons on the frame were some of his metal detecting finds. He was so proud of these things and always got them out to show family and friends and even went to an artifact show once and set up a display. He would have loved this forum and all the information on here!! I've got a long way to go to catch up with him!

Thanks for looking and helping! kind regards, sandcreek4

 

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[SoIll]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

I don't know Oklahoma types much, but I do see a Clovis. Nice ones

 

[Th3rty7]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

nice frame of points, the corner tangs are sweet, killer dalton too, thanks for sharing

 

[jamey]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

that is one nice frame.i would get alot of that stuff papered for insurance purposes if i were you. jamey

 

[Tnmountains]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

Beautiful collection and great inheritance. Maybe some of the pros will chime in for identification.Thank you for showing them to us.

TnMountains

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

I don't know Oklahoma types much, but I do see a Clovis. Nice ones

I think the point you are refering to is actually a Dalton, not a Clovis, but I could be wrong.

 

[RobKruzan]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

Hello,
That is a heck of a nice frame if you ever want to sell the tangs let me know.Also if you ever consider selling the drill let me know.Thanks for showing would like to see the rest of the 3,000 pieces.

 

[RobKruzan]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

Here is my opinion also the square stems appear to be dickson.

 

[ShowmeMoflint]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

Awesome frame of points some beautiful points in there Dalton,Corner tang,hidden valley a whole lot of sweetness

 

[pickaway]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

Sweet frame love the tangs...

 

[GL]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

That is a beautiful assortment of really nice points. They look to be in high grade condition too.

 

[Muddy Feet]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

Wow, your grandpa had an awesome collection there.

 

[Charmin]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

I don't know Oklahoma types much, but I do see a Clovis. Nice ones

Thanks for the kind words, SoIll! kind regards, sandcreek4

nice frame of points, the corner tangs are sweet, killer dalton too, thanks for sharing

Thanks thirty7! The corner tangs are my favorite, too. Grandpa always wondered if it was just one Indian who made them because of them being found at one place. Hard to prove! Kind regards, sandcreek4

that is one nice frame.i would get alot of that stuff papered for insurance purposes if i were you. jamey

Thanks so much jamey! regards, sandcreek4

Beautiful collection and great inheritance. Maybe some of the pros will chime in for identification.Thank you for showing them to us.

TnMountains

Thanks for the comments, TnMountains! kind regards, sandcreek4

I don't know Oklahoma types much, but I do see a Clovis. Nice ones

I think the point you are refering to is actually a Dalton, not a Clovis, but I could be wrong.

I think you're right about the one being a Dalton, Dorkfish! Thanks for the comments! regards, sandcreek4

Hello,
That is a heck of a nice frame if you ever want to sell the tangs let me know.Also if you ever consider selling the drill let me know.Thanks for showing would like to see the rest of the 3,000 pieces.

Thanks RobKruzan! I don't think we'll be selling them, but thanks for the offer. I'll try to post some more of the frames today. The drill you mentioned was found in the water. Grandpa was walking along the edge of the gravel bar, next to the creek and looked down and saw it! He was so tickled over it! It was after a big rain and its a wonder it wasn't broken! Kind regards, sandcreek4
PS--thanks for the ID on some of the points! I thought that one was a "turkey tail"! but was not sure!

Awesome frame of points some beautiful points in there Dalton,Corner tang,hidden valley a whole lot of sweetness

Thanks R-T Fact Hunter! It is a "whole lot of sweetness"! and a whole lot of great memories to us! kind regards, sandcreek4

Sweet frame love the tangs...

Thanks pickaway! Glad you enjoyed the tangs! regards, sandcreek4

That is a beautiful assortment of really nice points. They look to be in high grade condition too.

Thanks GL! These were some of his best points! kind regards, sandcreek4

Wow, your grandpa had an awesome collection there.

Thanks for the kind words, Muddy Feet! kind regards, sandcreek4

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

sandcreek, I don't the one that Rob ID 'd as a Dovetail is actually a Dove. It looks more Hopewellish to me and part of the Snyders family of Woodland Points.

 

[Charmin]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

sandcreek, I don't the one that Rob ID 'd as a Dovetail is actually a Dove. It looks more Hopewellish to me and part of the Snyders family of Woodland Points.

Okay--how do you tell the difference? This type is especially confusing for me . Are dovetails found in this part of the country? Thanks, Dorkfish for your comments and help! kind regards, sandcreek4

 

[Neanderthal]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

Dorkfish is right, that's Hopewell. Dovetail aren't found in Kansas, nor are Turkeytails. The "Turkeytail" looking piece is a Neosho blade (named for the Neosho waterway). They are a variant of Harahey. The cornertangs are great pieces, I'm curious to know if any of them have grinding on the top edge?

It may be easier if I just try to identify from the large frame pic itself.
Top row, starting from the left: Standlee (or Dickson), Gary, Gober or Scallorn (tiny arrow), Edgewood, Edgewood (though many will claim Pelican Lake - I'm writing an article about them right now), the 3 triangular arrow points are Fresno, Grand, the next two I can't see good enough, the end one is Dickson.

Middle top: Large white blade is Harahey, small grey arrow point is Scallorn or Current River, pink large blade and the pink one directly below it are Dicksons, to the right of coin is Hopewell/Grand, Gary, Calf Creek drill, unknown red dart , Cornertang, Hopewell / Grand, would LOVE to see the dark gray point below it up closer, Fresno triangular arrow and Wa--deleted--a right below it, Neosho knife to the far right. 2 Cornertangs and a Caddoan blade in the center.

Middle bottom: Gober, Sequoyah, Scallorn and Wa--deleted--a arrow points, two Hopewell points to the left, Pencil drill, Dalton, drill, pink gary knife and directly below it is edgewood. To the far right are Sorters Bluff, Harrel, Fresno, and Sequoyah arrow points.

The pipe stem is from a historic trade pipe, etc.

 

[RobKruzan]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

Its a turkeytail reguardless of what any book may or may not say obviously they are found there the pic clearly shows that.

 

[Neanderthal]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

Umm..no. Turkeytails are of the Red Ochre culture and are prevalent in the eastern woodlands. Completely different people from completelydifferent time periods, different places, several thousand years apart. There are a few variants of the Harahey: Sekan (stands for Southest Kansas), Neosho (named for Neosho waterway), Snakehead (wider on one end and named for similarity to slithering demon), 3 bevel (one of the most rare and so far I've only seen them coming from NE Oklahoma),etc.

Sekan are made from a worked down harahey, often by just inserting notches into the side. The notches are frequently high up on the blades, sometimes in the middle. Neosho can have just about ANY base, but rounded or diamond shaped seems to be the most popular. And yes, collectors do usually mistake them for "Turkeytails". Like all other Haraheys, they get beveled after several resharpenings (as is the example in the picture). These types are COMMON to the Ozarks area of KS, OK, MO, AR - they do make it down into TX even on occasion.

 

[RobKruzan]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

fields and the Arkansas River in Oklahoma, Kansas, and Missouri.)

OP did not state that everything was found in Kansas,I know turkeytails are found in missouri and doves aswell but those are only my opinions its a nice collection regaurdless of what you want to call them.

 

[Neanderthal]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

Robert, you see the material that's made out of? That's heat treated Kay Co. Flint...comes from Kay County Oklahoma. You see the beveling? That's not typical of Turkeytail, but IS typical of Neosho. IF (that's a huge if) Turkeytail WERE to occur in MO, it would be in eastern Mo., not western.

Even if made out of burlington from MO, it doesn't have the traits of turketail manufacture. I've said it 1,000 times, a person can't type by shape alone. If so, a person would call 1/2 of the Hopewell out there Dovetail, Marcos would be Kirks, Cahokia would really be fresnos or desert triangles, etc.

If any of those points were found in MO, there's very few. Neosho are COMMON in the area those are found. As for the Mo. Dovetails - there's been alot of debate as to whether the "St. Charles" is truely related to the Northeast Dovetails or not.

For the record...there is no such thing as Adena, they're all eastern Gary's