My Grandpas Collection of Artifacts

[Charmin]

My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

These belonged to my Grandpa and my mother. Grandpa started looking for artifacts/arrowheads in the early 1960's and continued until his death in 1994. He had approx. 3000 artifacts at the time of his death. He and my mom would hunt for arrowheads on creeks, fields and the Arkansas River in Oklahoma, Kansas, and Missouri. He never knew the material or age on most of these but could tell you exactly where and when he found them. Mom was with him most of the time--usually he was waiting for her after school and they would go look for a couple of hours. He had access to lots of private land because he was an oilfield pumper and had many rancher friends who let him hunt. He was the greatest man!

My mom and I are trying to catalog some of these finds but we aren't sure of type/material/age and we need some help! I have three frames to start out with and was wondering if you all would help ID some of them? I know this is a lot to ask, but there are so many knowledgable people on here, and if you could help it would be appreciated!!

I want to especially find out about the corner tang knives--the material and age on these. I have looked online and there's not a lot of info about them. Grandpa found all three on the same gravel bar and in an area where the creek bank washed out.
Also, the "square bottom" points, are these Dickson's or Gary's? or is that even close?
There are pieces of pottery in some of the pictures that we would like to know about, too.

The coins, beads and buttons on the frame were some of his metal detecting finds. He was so proud of these things and always got them out to show family and friends and even went to an artifact show once and set up a display. He would have loved this forum and all the information on here!! I've got a long way to go to catch up with him!

Thanks for looking and helping! kind regards, sandcreek4

 

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[Charmin]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

Dorkfish is right, that's Hopewell. Dovetail aren't found in Kansas, nor are Turkeytails. The "Turkeytail" looking piece is a Neosho blade (named for the Neosho waterway). They are a variant of Harahey. The cornertangs are great pieces, I'm curious to know if any of them have grinding on the top edge?

It may be easier if I just try to identify from the large frame pic itself.
Top row, starting from the left: Standlee (or Dickson), Gary, Gober or Scallorn (tiny arrow), Edgewood, Edgewood (though many will claim Pelican Lake - I'm writing an article about them right now), the 3 triangular arrow points are Fresno, Grand, the next two I can't see good enough, the end one is Dickson.

Middle top: Large white blade is Harahey, small grey arrow point is Scallorn or Current River, pink large blade and the pink one directly below it are Dicksons, to the right of coin is Hopewell/Grand, Gary, Calf Creek drill, unknown red dart , Cornertang, Hopewell / Grand, would LOVE to see the dark gray point below it up closer, Fresno triangular arrow and Wa--deleted--a right below it, Neosho knife to the far right. 2 Cornertangs and a Caddoan blade in the center.

Middle bottom: Gober, Sequoyah, Scallorn and Wa--deleted--a arrow points, two Hopewell points to the left, Pencil drill, Dalton, drill, pink gary knife and directly below it is edgewood. To the far right are Sorters Bluff, Harrel, Fresno, and Sequoyah arrow points.

The pipe stem is from a historic trade pipe, etc.

I can't thank you enough for the help, Neanderthal!
Here are some pictures of the dark gray point and some more of the corner tangs--I'm not sure if they have any grinding---not sure what to look for, so I just took more pics and maybe you can see! Sorry to be such a dummy about that-- need to study some more! many thanks and kind regards, sandcreek4

 

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[RobKruzan]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

I am not disagreeing with what you are saying Matt you know more about point types then I do I personaly dont care what anyone calls a point all that being said they are nice artifacts.


Also when I was browsing the aaca forums I saw that you had a stroke sorry to hear about that and good look healing up.

 

[Charmin]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

fields and the Arkansas River in Oklahoma, Kansas, and Missouri.)

OP did not state that everything was found in Kansas,I know turkeytails are found in missouri and doves aswell but those are only my opinions its a nice collection regaurdless of what you want to call them.

Rob-----I certainly didn't mean to cause an argument betweeen you and Neanderthal ! Or was that just a friendly discussion? This point was found on the Oklahoma/Kansas border, if that helps to clarify the type. Thank you both for your opinions on this point! kind regards, sandcreek4

 

[RobKruzan]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

for the record there is no types these are just names that white men have came up with to type a point for collecting purposes.

 

[RobKruzan]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

Its your post sorry to get things stirred up I wont say anymore but it is a nice collection that you have and look foward to seeing more.I dont blame you for not wanting to sell.

 

[Charmin]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

for the record there is no types these are just names that white men have came up with to type a point for collecting purposes.

Its your post sorry to get things stirred up I wont say anymore but it is a nice collection that you have and look foward to seeing more.I dont blame you for not wanting to sell.

Thank you again, Rob. You can say as much as you like about these things--its good to have different opinions! I just didn't want to cause any problems over a bunch of rocks ! Kind regards~~~sandcreek4

 

[Neanderthal]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

I am not disagreeing with what you are saying Matt you know more about point types then I do I personaly dont care what anyone calls a point all that being said they are nice artifacts.


Also when I was browsing the aaca forums I saw that you had a stroke sorry to hear about that and good look healing up.

Thanks Robert, I really appreciate it guy. I'm still recovering and they are still unsure of the cause so far. I go back to the Doc on thursday for results of echo cardiogram, hopefully they'll have some answers. I'm just taking it easy until we can get something figured out. It's the reason I have so much time to post lately..LOL.

Sand, I believe it's just a friendly discussion. I really do get passionate when talking about artifacts at times, and do see how my posts can come off as harsh (I've been accused of it on more than one occasion). My wife is a teacher, but even she will tell you that I wouldn't make a very good one. I'm too short and abrupt sometimes, but I mean no ill will. I like to educate and learn, I'm just not diplomatic enough about doing it.

 

[Charmin]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

I am not disagreeing with what you are saying Matt you know more about point types then I do I personaly dont care what anyone calls a point all that being said they are nice artifacts.


Also when I was browsing the aaca forums I saw that you had a stroke sorry to hear about that and good look healing up.

Thanks Robert, I really appreciate it guy. I'm still recovering and they are still unsure of the cause so far. I go back to the Doc on thursday for results of echo cardiogram, hopefully they'll have some answers. I'm just taking it easy until we can get something figured out. It's the reason I have so much time to post lately..LOL.

Sand, I believe it's just a friendly discussion. I really do get passionate when talking about artifacts at times, and do see how my posts can come off as harsh (I've been accused of it on more than one occasion). My wife is a teacher, but even she will tell you that I wouldn't make a very good one. I'm too short and abrupt sometimes, but I mean no ill will. I like to educate and learn, I'm just not diplomatic enough about doing it.

I'm glad it was just a friendly discussion! You HAVE educated me on these points and I thank you for it! Praying for a speedy recovery for you and hope your next doctors visit goes well~~~~~sandcreek4

 

[RobKruzan]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

Same here no hard feelings intended.
I am not afraid to admit he knows more then me when it comes to typing points.
Good to hear you are doing better not much fun going to the doctor.
Hope i didnt get your stress level up I learned a few things anyway.
Have a good one.

 

[11KBP]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

Beautiful collection sandcreek4 ...many fine Plains pieces in that frame.

Great typology work Neanderthal.

11KBP

 

[Charmin]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

Beautiful collection sandcreek4 ...many fine Plains pieces in that frame.

Great typology work Neanderthal.

11KBP

Thank you 11KBP, for the kind words and glad you enjoyed the frame!
My daughter did a diagram by using Neanderthal's identification on these points--this helped me get them straight and I thought everyone else might like it, too. If we've got any of the points wrong on this, let us know! sandcreek4

 

[11KBP]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

My daughter did a diagram by using Neanderthal's identification on these points--this helped me get them straight and I thought everyone else might like it, too. If we've got any of the points wrong on this, let us know! sandcreek4

I am impressed with you and your mom's desire to get this collection catalogued.
The collection will have much more archaeological value once it is documented. By the way, your daughter's diagram is great.

 

[Charmin]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

My daughter did a diagram by using Neanderthal's identification on these points--this helped me get them straight and I thought everyone else might like it, too. If we've got any of the points wrong on this, let us know! sandcreek4

I am impressed with you and your mom's desire to get this collection catalogued.
The collection will have much more archaeological value once it is documented. By the way, your daughter's diagram is great.

Thanks again,11KBP ! Mom is going to write down where she thinks each one came from(the different gravel bars, fields, river, ect.) so we'll have that on paper, too. I have learned a lesson from trying to do this--every time I find a point, I'm going to write down all the information that day! It's a little mind-boggling to do all these frames of Grandpa's, but we're enjoying every minute of it! and it will be something for my kids to enjoy someday~~~~regards, sandcreek4

 

[naturegirl]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

Oh my goodness! What a wonderful collection, and thank you for sharing this wonderful diagram. Since I'm new to this, and I was wondering how to find Oklahoma specific info, this chart is a great start, your daughter did a great job. Many many thanks! Your Grandfather was an oildfield pumper, so is my husband, so I know and appreciate the type. Happy hunting to you!

naturegirl

 

[Charmin]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

Oh my goodness! What a wonderful collection, and thank you for sharing this wonderful diagram. Since I'm new to this, and I was wondering how to find Oklahoma specific info, this chart is a great start, your daughter did a great job. Many many thanks! Your Grandfather was an oildfield pumper, so is my husband, so I know and appreciate the type. Happy hunting to you!

naturegirl

Thanks, naturegirl! This is such a great site for getting help to identify points! There are a lot of different types/lithics and I get confused easily and I am glad for any help!
Happy hunting to you, too and kind regards~~~sandcreek4

 

[Neanderthal]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

Sand, I LOVE the way you have that converted to outline. That actually helps me a bit. You got very close, but there are a few changes to how you have the list.

6,7,8 - are all Fresnos.
9 - Grand
39- may be huffaker, does it have more than 1 side notch on the sides of the base? If so, Huffaker, if just single notches, Washita.

For clarity, the Sorters Bluff are the small arrow points with a small bifurcated or split stem. Gober look similar to Scallorn, but usually have a wider blade area, wide squat stem, and they often aren't flaked to the center. Harrel are the Washita looking point with central basal notch, etc.

Would love to see a closer pic of #38 if you get the time.

Matt

 

[Charmin]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

Sand, I LOVE the way you have that converted to outline. That actually helps me a bit. You got very close, but there are a few changes to how you have the list.

6,7,8 - are all Fresnos.
9 - Grand
39- may be huffaker, does it have more than 1 side notch on the sides of the base? If so, Huffaker, if just single notches, Wa--deleted--a.

For clarity, the Sorters Bluff are the small arrow points with a small bifurcated or split stem. Gober look similar to Scallorn, but usually have a wider blade area, wide squat stem, and they often aren't flaked to the center. Harrel are the Wa--deleted--a looking point with central basal notch, etc.

Would love to see a closer pic of #38 if you get the time.

Matt

Hey Matt--artifact #39 does have an extra notch-but only on one side! Or that may be a "nick" out of that side??!! I'm not sure! The close-up pictures of #38 are on here--they're right above those close-ups of the tang points. Look and see if that's the one you wanted, okay? Thanks again for the help and I'll fix the names on my mistakes. regards, sandcreek

 

[Neanderthal]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

Aha, ok, my bad. I see # 38 now, looks maybe McKean. If the one has just one notch, it'll most likely be Washita. I have an alibates washita with an extra notch from W. Okieland...one killer, killer washita.

 

[Pinellas Man]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

That's some killers Sandcreek and I love that killer drill. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Charmin]

Re: My Grandpa's Collection of Artifacts

That's some killers Sandcreek and I love that killer drill. Thanks for sharing.

The drill is one of my favorites, too! Thanks for all the comments-----regards, sandcreek4