My silver haul

[tamrock]

Boy I'm having a heck of a week on picking finds. I went to a small ts that at times will have some nice jewelry pieces and I have found some sterling items from time to time. I picked up the two tall sterling weighted candlesticks for $5.ea.,The three short weighted sticks for $3.ea. and then what I thought was some plate silver turned out to be a whole other matter all together and unbelievable I must say if they're the real deal early 19th century London sterling candlesticks lanterns for $6.ea. They're hallmarked and the date may be 1807. The series of 5 marks on the base have an additional mans profile mark I'm not familiar with and all the other removable pieces have just 4 marks. They also have what appears to be a family crest and motto which to me looks like LOYAULTE / NAHONTE. Some kind of Latin I guess? They're pretty weighty also. Hopefully they're the real deal 213 year old antique sterling pieces.

 

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[camichael]

Wow, what a great find!

 

[Blak bart]

Woooo hoooo. Nice score tamrock....congrats

 

[Red-Coat]

The chambersticks (that’s what they’re properly called) with snuffers are very VERY nice and potentially rather valuable. Especially since you have a pair.

They are indeed London hallmarked for 1807 and by a very good maker… William Stroud (registered July 1788). Note that one of the maker marks has been applied upside down, so it appears to read ‘SM’ rather than ‘WS’. Not unusual, and of no consequence.

The motto below the coat of arms is “Loyaulté n'a honte” (No shame in loyalty) and the armorial is that of the Duke of Newcastle, as well as being the city's arms. The first Duke was Thomas Pelham-Holles, Prime Minister and First Lord of the Treasury for two terms between 1754—1756 and 1757—1762. Obviously the chambersticks are later family or 'town' pieces.

 

[niffler]

Drooling....!!

 

[tamrock]

The chambersticks (that’s what they’re properly called) with snuffers are very VERY nice and potentially rather valuable. Especially since you have a pair.

They are indeed London hallmarked for 1807 and by a very good maker… William Stroud (registered July 1788). Note that one of the maker marks has been applied upside down, so it appears to read ‘SM’ rather than ‘WS’. Not unusual, and of no consequence.

The motto below the coat of arms is “Loyaulté n'a honte” (No shame in loyalty) and the armorial is that of the Duke of Newcastle, as well as being the city's arms. The first Duke was Thomas Pelham-Holles, Prime Minister and First Lord of the Treasury for two terms between 1754—1756 and 1757—1762. Obviously the chambersticks are later family or 'town' pieces.

View attachment 1882323

Thanks Red-Coat, as I was waiting in anticipation for your take on these and I'm in disbelief that I was able to find such unique antiques. Chambersticks they are. I wasn't sure what they are to be described as. No doubt they weren't the chambersticks for the average citizen back when they were originally made.

 

[tamrock]

On another note, I've often wondered why the use of a snuffer? I grew up just blowing candles out and I've thought is there some kind of moral belief or proper etiquette in the practice to put out a candle by the use of a snuffer? I have a more recently made sterling Gorham Silver stick handle snuffer and you can still buy a snuffer today. It just seems kind of unnecessary to keep on hand an extra device in order to put out a candle. I'm amazed these chambersticks still have the ones they have, as they very well could have been lost by some child over the last two centuries thinking these would be a toy to scoop dirt with or something to play with.

 

[ARC]

On another note, I've often wondered why the use of a snuffer? I grew up just blowing candles out and I've thought is there some kind of moral belief or proper etiquette in the practice to put out a candle by the use of a snuffer? I have a more recently made sterling Gorham Silver stick handle snuffer and you can still buy a snuffer today. It just seems kind of unnecessary to keep on hand an extra device in order to put out a candle. I'm amazed these chambersticks still have the ones they have, as they very well could have been lost by some child over the last two centuries thinking these would be a toy to scoop dirt with or something to play with.

Actually it serves a very important function... When you blow a candle out ... the wick continues to burn most of the time... giving off an acrid smoke and reducing the wick by smoldering... thus making the wick harder to relight and keep lit the next time AND requiring maintenance to keep it burning due to the loss of mass.

When the snuffer is used... it extinguishes it more completely... preventing the wick reducing smolder.

 

[ARC]

Btw... great score Tam.

 

[tamrock]

I've read that candles in the centuries past were to some an expense necessity, so I guess anything to improve the life of a consumable as they are would be of use. In the movie, The Man who invented Christmas, there was a scene were Charles Dickens was pickering over the need his father had for wanting more candles, than what Charles thought was necessary. Dickens wife thought he should lighten up of his concern about the candles.

 

[Red-Coat]

Not the same pattern as yours, no armorial, and has been nicely polished up... but to give you some idea:

 

[tamrock]

Not the same pattern as yours, no armorial, and has been nicely polished up... but to give you some idea:

View attachment 1882440

Wow, so that be around $1670.usd for just the one piece they're hoping to get.

 

[Red-Coat]

The series of 5 marks on the base have an additional mans profile mark I'm not familiar with...

Just realised I neglected to comment on this.

From 1st December 1784 to 30th April 1890, duty (tax) was payable on silver items in England. The maker (sponsor) paid it at the time of assay and the amount due was related to the weight of the item and its silver content. You didn’t have to pay the duty if you didn’t submit the piece for hallmarking, but then you couldn’t legally sell it as ‘silver’ without the hallmarks. The Assay Office applied a ‘duty mark’ in the form of the reigning monarch’s head in profile within an escutcheon as part of the compulsory hallmark set, serving as proof that the duty had been paid. So, yours has the head of George III. There are numerous variations (and different legislation was applicable in Scotland and Ireland) but the typical marks for George III in England were:

1st December 1784 – 29 May 1786: monarch facing left, punched in intaglio within an octagonal escutcheon.
30th May 1786 – end of reign in 1820 until new punches could prepared: monarch facing right, punched in relief within an oval escutcheon.

If a maker (sponsor) subsequently presented documentation to prove that the goods had been exported, the duty could be claimed back as a refund.

 

[tamrock]

Just realised I neglected to comment on this.

From 1st December 1784 to 30th April 1890, duty (tax) was payable on silver items in England. The maker (sponsor) paid it at the time of assay and the amount due was related to the weight of the item and its silver content. You didn’t have to pay the duty if you didn’t submit the piece for hallmarking, but then you couldn’t legally sell it as ‘silver’ without the hallmarks. The Assay Office applied a ‘duty mark’ in the form of the reigning monarch’s head in profile within an escutcheon as part of the compulsory hallmark set, serving as proof that the duty had been paid. So, yours has the head of George III. There are numerous variations (and different legislation was applicable in Scotland and Ireland) but the typical marks for George III in England were:

1st December 1784 – 29 May 1786: monarch facing left, punched in intaglio within an octagonal escutcheon.
30th May 1786 – end of reign in 1820 until new punches could prepared: monarch facing right, punched in relief within an oval escutcheon.

If a maker (sponsor) subsequently presented documentation to prove that the goods had been exported, the duty could be claimed back as a refund.

Intresting. Thanks RC

 

[JimDon]

Another absolutely awesome fined Tam!!! Nothing better than to find 18th and 19th century English silver! With the engraving I’m sure that adds incrementally to the value. Well done

 

[ArfieBoy]

Super cool picks, Tamron! Congratulations on some fine chambersticks and snuffers! Thanks for sharing, again!