MYSTERY ROCK

[Sodabob]

Howdy

I haven't been around for a while and had to re-register with a different name. Anyway, I'm working on a real mystery and could use some help. If I can remember how to post pictures, please notice the carved images in what locals call "The Mystery Rock." I have been asked by our local Historical Society / Museum to research it, and depending on the results here, might write an article for them in their newsletter. The rock has already been examined by a group of Archaeologist but they are baffled as to what the carvings might be or represent. The only thing they determined with any certainty is that the carvings were done with some type of steel tool such as a chisel. As for the date it was carved, they are baffled about that as well. Its located in a brushy area about 100 feet away from an old State highway and about 100 yards from an old Railroad line that was built in 1916. In the area there is also an old U.S. military encampment that was built in 1940-41 and sold to the County around 1947-48. The two most prominent theories are ...

1. The rock was carved by a Railroad worker
2. The rock was carved by a member of the Military

But regardless of who carved it or when, we are trying to determine what the carvings might be or represent? The archaeologist said they don't recognize the pattern and are pretty sure they are not Aztec or anything like that, and that they might be random that only the "carver" knows the meaning of.

If you have any theories or recognize the pattern as something specific, please let me know and I will pass the information on to the Historical Society. The rock is located about 50 miles east of San Diego along old Highway 94.

Thanks in advance to those who participate in possibly solving a mystery that has had locals baffled for several years.

Sodabob ... a.k.a. Sodabottlebob and Sodapopbob


The rock is about 6 feet long, 3 feet wide, and about 2 feet thick. Most of the carving are on one end of the rock but in some places continue over the side. The local museum has permits to move it next Spring but will need a backhoe to lift and transport it.

 

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That is really cool

 

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Welcome to tnet Tommy

 

[Doubter in MD]

I'm pretty sure it's a diagram for a flux capacitor.

 

[unclemac]

The only thing they determined with any certainty is that the carvings were done with some type of steel tool such as a chisel...so no, no chance it was Native American anything....

 

[Sodabob]

The only thing they determined with any certainty is that the carvings were done with some type of steel tool such as a chisel...so no, no chance it was Native American anything....

Correcto-mundo! I will have to check with the Historical Society Museum curator again but I seem to recall that the archaeologist who examined it found micro evidence of steel embedded in the rock such as a chisel might leave. I definitely recall the curator telling me the archaeologist determined that because of the intricate design there was no way that it was done by primitive hands. As I said previously, the archaeologist presented two possible theories ...

1. That it was carved by a Railroad worker in 1916 when the Rail Line was built
2. That it was carved by a member of the military from the nearby camp during WWII

The main question the Museum people are trying to find an answer to is ...

1. Is the design whimsical or is it from some yet-to-be-determined identifiable source?

 

[Sodabob]

I'm pretty sure it's a diagram for a flux capacitor.

View attachment 1671359

DIM

What you're calling a "Flux Capacitor" is probably the most distinctive design on the entire rock. If someone can determine its origin (if it has one ?) then it might lead to other clues and possibly solve the mystery.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

For comparison... just saying, these look awfully similar to what you've got there Bob.

"Petroglyphs Provincial Park is a historical-class provincial park situated in Woodview,Ontario, Canada, northeast of Peterborough. It has the largest collection of ancient First Nations petroglyphs in Ontario, Canada.

The stone is generally believed to have been carved by the Algonkian or Iroquian speakingpeople between 900 and 1100 AD., if not somewhat earlier during the Archaic.Today, the First Nations people of Ontario call the carvings Kinomagewapkong, meaning "the rocks that teach" or "the Teaching Rocks". Originally two to three inches deep the 1200 carvings were made using gneiss hammers to incise human figures, animals, and a dominant figure whose head apparently represents the sun, onto the soft, gently sloping walls.

According to the Learning Center, while the glyphs are important, they are not the primary reason this site is sacred. The rock site itself is a sacred place. And today is a place of pilgrimage for local Ojibway people. The deep crevices in therock are believed to lead to the spirit world, as there is an underground trickle of water that runs beneath the rock which produces sounds interpreted by aboriginal people as those of the Spirits speaking to them."

- Dave

 

[Shortfinger]

DIM

What you're calling a "Flux Capacitor" is probably the most distinctive design on the entire rock. If someone can determine its origin (if it has one ?) then it might lead to other clues and possibly solve the mystery.

Howdy, neighbor. I'm from up in Valley Center way (part time, part time in Yuma as well). Just a guess on my part, but I would say that more likely someone from the Military camp. It looks like it would have taken quite a while to finish the project, and most likely a railroad worker would have not stayed in the area for long enough to finish the project. Unless of course, it is near something like the Carrizo Gorge trestle, which took a while to finish, I suspect. Also, in my experience, the military often had some extra time on their hands. Or, it could have just been a local resident....I don't recognize anything specific (or at least anything I can definitely tie to any particular source), but it is interesting. The "Flux Capacitor" looks kind of like a stick figure without arms, from one of the views. Stay dry.

JB

JB

 

[Shortfinger]

Interesting that in most of the pictures, the design seems to be incised into the rock, but in a couple of them it appears to be in relief.... a trick of the camera, I suppose?

JB

 

[Sodabob]

Thanks for all the observations

One thing I forgot to mention is that the military facility also maintained an Italian prisoner of war camp in the area. Apparently some of the Italian prisoners were allowed a little freedom to help on some of the everyday projects. They even built a small Virgin Mary shrine embedded in rock that is still there today, but is a good mile away from the mystery rock. Maybe the design has an Italian connection.

 

[RGINN]

Cool and mysterious, hope you figure it out. Trail markers were never that complicated. Almost looks like someone with imagination and a Dremel tool had free time on their hands after watching 'Ancient Aliens' on the TV.

 

[Sodabob]

For comparison... just saying, these look awfully similar to what you've got there Bob.

"Petroglyphs Provincial Park is a historical-class provincial park situated in Woodview,Ontario, Canada, northeast of Peterborough. It has the largest collection of ancient First Nations petroglyphs in Ontario, Canada.

The stone is generally believed to have been carved by the Algonkian or Iroquian speakingpeople between 900 and 1100 AD., if not somewhat earlier during the Archaic.Today, the First Nations people of Ontario call the carvings Kinomagewapkong, meaning "the rocks that teach" or "the Teaching Rocks". Originally two to three inches deep the 1200 carvings were made using gneiss hammers to incise human figures, animals, and a dominant figure whose head apparently represents the sun, onto the soft, gently sloping walls.

According to the Learning Center, while the glyphs are important, they are not the primary reason this site is sacred. The rock site itself is a sacred place. And today is a place of pilgrimage for local Ojibway people. The deep crevices in therock are believed to lead to the spirit world, as there is an underground trickle of water that runs beneath the rock which produces sounds interpreted by aboriginal people as those of the Spirits speaking to them."

- Dave

ANTIQUARIAN

Thanks for the info. I love that kind of stuff. However, I visited Petrified Forest National Park a while back where "Newspaper Rock" is located and one of the Rangers told me they are no longer sure about the true nature of the petroglyphs there. They suspect they might have been inscribed by indigenous children such as kids nowadays my scribble in a coloring book. I'm not sure I subscribe to that theory, but I gotta admit that some of the etchings look kind of childish.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Thanks very much for your follow up post to mine Bob. The great thing about the folks here on Tnet, is that we're all passionate about history and trying to save it.

I've been detecting a number of old settlement/farm sites Northeast of Toronto this past year and I had one of the best stories told to me by the landowner. When his family bought the property in 1962, the former landowner told him a story about finding a partially carved Native American totem pole in the woods in the 1950s. Now, I haven't pursued to search for this totem pole, but it's obviously on my mind. Maybe later this year I'll do a search for it, as his land is surrounded by hardwood trees that are hundreds of years old.

Hope you find the answers to your 'mystery rock', as I love these types of mysteries.

Dave

 

[Doubter in MD]

DIM

What you're calling a "Flux Capacitor" is probably the most distinctive design on the entire rock. If someone can determine its origin (if it has one ?) then it might lead to other clues and possibly solve the mystery.

I was trying to be funny. The invention of the flux capacitor is the breakthrough that allows time travel in "Back to the Future". Good luck with your rock. It's quite intriguing.

 

[DCMatt]

Bob - Welcome back! Good to see you posting again.

Can you please be more specific about the location of the rock?

Thx

DCMatt

 

[Sodabob]

Bob - Welcome back! Good to see you posting again.

Can you please be more specific about the location of the rock?

Thx

DCMatt

DC

I have been asked by the Historical Society not to disclose the "exact" location of the rock until it can be relocated this spring or summer. They feel the less people that know about its location the better. Because it is in a remote area they are afraid someone might steal or vandalize it. The funny thing is, I grew up in the area, as did a lot of my friends, and none of us knew about the rock until about two years ago. Even the Historical Society didn't know about it until about two years ago. But I can tell you that it is located in California. After they move it I will be sure and disclose its "safe" location.

 

[Sodabob]

P.S.

Despite what I said in my last post, I see no harm in disclosing the following ...

The Mystery Rock ...

1. Is a stones throw from a wagon road built in the 1860s
2. Is located in a community that was established in the 1860s (The community had a Blacksmith shop)
3. Is located a stones throw from a Highway that was constructed (of dirt) around 1910 and paved around 1930
4. Is located about 1/2 mile away from a Military encampment that was built in 1941

Footnote: Despite what I said earlier about "Totem Poles" I'm kind of leaning toward the "Blacksmith Shop" as a possible connection. They certainly would have had the necessary tools and talent for such an endeavor.

 

[DCMatt]

DC

I have been asked by the Historical Society not to disclose the "exact" location of the rock until it can be relocated this spring or summer. They feel the less people that know about its location the better. Because it is in a remote area they are afraid someone might steal or vandalize it. The funny thing is, I grew up in the area, as did a lot of my friends, and none of us knew about the rock until about two years ago. Even the Historical Society didn't know about it until about two years ago. But I can tell you that it is located in California. After they move it I will be sure and disclose its "safe" location.

Thx for the reply Bob. I found it on the internet, although the exact location is not disclosed.

From a certain perspective it begins to show some symmetry. At the 'top' you can see what could be the water symbol.

Two rectangles beside the 'water', triangles on the outside edges, and the prominent 'Y' angled in the center.

I'm not saying these are Native American symbol. Just showing the symmetry...

I think the carving was left unfinished.



I can only speculate on who did it and why. And my 'theory' is probably no different than yours.

PM me so I can ask a couple more questions without revealing the location in the thread.

DCMatt

 

[Shortfinger]

P.S.

Despite what I said in my last post, I see no harm in disclosing the following ...

The Mystery Rock ...

1. Is a stones throw from a wagon road built in the 1860s
2. Is located in a community that was established in the 1860s (The community had a Blacksmith shop)
3. Is located a stones throw from a Highway that was constructed (of dirt) around 1910 and paved around 1930
4. Is located about 1/2 mile away from a Military encampment that was built in 1941

Footnote: Despite what I said earlier about "Totem Poles" I'm kind of leaning toward the "Blacksmith Shop" as a possible connection. They certainly would have had the necessary tools and talent for such an endeavor.

Hi again, Bob. Now that you have brought up the blacksmith shop, I have to agree with you on that. Certainly had the tools, and quite possibly the time. Although you have given enough hints here to find the general location (to anybody familiar with SD County history), I won't go looking for it. I suspect that even with the general location, it would be difficult to find..... I'll wait until it shows up at the "safe" location. However, if, at that time, you would disclose the original location, I would be interested in seeing if there are any similar stones in the area. If I did find any, I would leave them in place and contact you and the Historical Society.

JB

JB

 

[Johnbrian]

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