Need a little help for those CRH finds that are "black with tarnish"

[TheRockDoc]

Need a little help for those CRH finds that are "black with tarnish"

So, I have asked several people about this and gotten so many different answers that I am still as clueless as I was before. I know somebody in here can clearify. So, since everyone here is CRH, it seems that most CRH's have a general interest in collecting coins above and beyond just the silver content. (mine started with the silver content and has morphed into a full fledged coin collecting addiction). -Is that common?
I know that most collectors pretty much consider it a sin to clean your old coins. My question is this, for those old silvers that are pretty much completely black with tarnish, is that tarnish actually eating, or hurting the silver in any way? Or is it "protecting" the silver? I am wondering because I would clean the ones that are extremely bad, if the tarnish is hurting the silver content, if it is not hurting anything, I definately wouldnt waste my time cleaning them. Thanks in advance for the info.



Chris.

 

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[dave5710]

Re: Need a little help for those CRH finds that are "black with tarnish"

I'm no expert, but I think the reasoning is, by cleaning away the toning/tarnish you might cause scratches, that would lower the grade of a coin.

 

[papa1956e9]

Re: Need a little help for those CRH finds that are "black with tarnish"

I used this trick a few times to clean up some bad ones, doesn't hurt the coins at all.

http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/homeexpts/tarnish.html

 

[captainfwiffo]

Re: Need a little help for those CRH finds that are "black with tarnish"

The rule for coins and American furniture is "do not clean". Coin collectors generally consider harshly cleaned coins to be ruined. In the case of patina, the tarnish does not harm the coin (at least, not as much as cleaning would).

That said, foreign matter, grease, dirt, goo, etc. that might harm the coin can be cleaned off. The key is to be gentle, and to not harm the toning/patina on the coin. No scrubbing, rubbing, harsh chemicals, etc. I don't know much about cleaning coins, so I avoid doing it on any coin that might have value. You can always clean it later, or have an expert do it, but it's impossible to undo a bad cleaning job. I have done a gentle soap-and-water type cleaning on coins that aren't valuable, and there's a trick with soaking in olive oil for weeks that people use on coins that are really crudded up.

 

[SFBayArea]

Re: Need a little help for those CRH finds that are "black with tarnish"

It's not recommended to do cleaning but it is okay to dip the coins to get rid of unattractive toning.

Ezest can be bought at any coin shop and can be used to get rid of toning. If you don't like the way it looks afterwards, you can always retone it all over again.

 

[TheRockDoc]

Re: Need a little help for those CRH finds that are "black with tarnish"

It's not recommended to do cleaning but it is okay to dip the coins to get rid of unattractive toning.

Ezest can be bought at any coin shop and can be used to get rid of toning. If you don't like the way it looks afterwards, you can always retone it all over again.

I am very new to all of this, How would one go about retoning a silver coin all over again

 

[StevoCBR]

Re: Need a little help for those CRH finds that are "black with tarnish"

I could care less about collecting and only CRH for Ag. Personally I leave the coins alone but if a person likes coins i say go to town. I think were in a era of higher silver prices and unless the world does a 180 on a dime next week, prices will continue to rise on people concern of the shell game the world is playing with fiat/monopoly money. The worlds financial system is in trouble and until that changes melt will outweigh numismatic in many cases. So with that being said in most cases you won't ruin anything if you clean your coins. It seems unless it is in mint state go for it.

 

[jim4silver]

Re: Need a little help for those CRH finds that are "black with tarnish"

It's not recommended to do cleaning but it is okay to dip the coins to get rid of unattractive toning.

Ezest can be bought at any coin shop and can be used to get rid of toning. If you don't like the way it looks afterwards, you can always retone it all over again.

I am very new to all of this, How would one go about retoning a silver coin all over again

You should know that dipping a coin IS cleaning and an experienced coin enthusiast can spot a coin that has been dipped, and even one that is re toned afterward. Once a coin has gone past a certain level toning-wise (when it looks black as you say), it is impossible to get it to look normal by dipping. If it is just mildly exhibiting toning, you can make it look good if you do it correctly. Dipping utilizes mild acids that eat away a microscopic layer and can remove the original mint luster if not done just right. When a coin lacks its original mint luster you can spot it right away if you know what to look for. Even a toned coin can exhibit mint luster to some extent if it has not been cleaned and the toning is not too much.

If the coin has any numismatic value then don't do anything to it. 99% of all the coins you find CRHing will have almost zero numismatic (if you are doing halves) value so clean away if you like it.

Toning does not diminish the silver value.

Jim

 

[clovis97]

Re: Need a little help for those CRH finds that are "black with tarnish"

Good thread.

I just cleaned my first coin ever. It was a '64 Ken that appeared to be covered in oil and an asphalt substance, and was very sticky. It was so bad that I would not have put it with my other silver finds, so I decided to clean it.

Dawn dish soap got the most of it, and then I used baking powder and water. It sparkles now, and it is fun to look at that coin. It is actually my favorite coin now.

I know the collectors are cringing when they read this. I'm also into postwar Lionel trains, so I understand the "don't touch them"
mentality.

I would have never touched a less common coin without professional advice. I still love looking at my shiny circulated 64 Kennedy.

 

[Bigheed]

Re: Need a little help for those CRH finds that are "black with tarnish"

good info on this thread, i may try cleaning a few just for fun myself with the baking soda method!

 

[hombre_de_plata_flaco]

Re: Need a little help for those CRH finds that are "black with tarnish"

If the coin has any numismatic value then don't do anything to it. 99% of all the coins you find CRHing will have almost zero numismatic (if you are doing halves) value so clean away if you like it.

Toning does not diminish the silver value.

Jim

That's what I was thinking. Most of the Roosevelts and Washingtons are just considered "Junk" silver and really don't have much collector value beyond the silver content. I have never cleaned any coins, but I bought a Washington quarter the other day that had been cleaned with baking soda and I must admit it looked really nice to me. Really shiny.

 

[captainfwiffo]

Re: Need a little help for those CRH finds that are "black with tarnish"

Yeah, if a coin doesn't have collectable value, nobody's gonna complain. On the other hand, if FIRE310 cleans that beautiful walker, I'll administer the lashing personally.

 

[Scott (Mich)]

Re: Need a little help for those CRH finds that are "black with tarnish"

I used this trick a few times to clean up some bad ones, doesn't hurt the coins at all.

http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/homeexpts/tarnish.html

The method I read about a few years ago that I use to clean dug coppers and other coins I find while Metal detecting is real similar to the above linked article. Instead of baking soda I use Arm and Hammer's Washing soda, You can find it where laundry detergent is sold. I get a glass bowl (six or so inch diameter by a couple of inches deep), line it with tin foil (Aluminum foil), put the coin in the middle of it, add about a tablespoon of soda on the coin, then pour in boiling water, or close to boiling water and let it sit for a half hour or so. You will see the foil dissolve away a bit. When the mixture is done bubbling it is time to check the coin out. The old crud on the coin turns black and can be washed off. Sometimes I have to run a coin through this bath a couple of times.

 

[SFBayArea]

Re: Need a little help for those CRH finds that are "black with tarnish"

It's not recommended to do cleaning but it is okay to dip the coins to get rid of unattractive toning.

Ezest can be bought at any coin shop and can be used to get rid of toning. If you don't like the way it looks afterwards, you can always retone it all over again.

I am very new to all of this, How would one go about retoning a silver coin all over again

You should know that dipping a coin IS cleaning and an experienced coin enthusiast can spot a coin that has been dipped, and even one that is re toned afterward. Once a coin has gone past a certain level toning-wise (when it looks black as you say), it is impossible to get it to look normal by dipping. If it is just mildly exhibiting toning, you can make it look good if you do it correctly. Dipping utilizes mild acids that eat away a microscopic layer and can remove the original mint luster if not done just right. When a coin lacks its original mint luster you can spot it right away if you know what to look for. Even a toned coin can exhibit mint luster to some extent if it has not been cleaned and the toning is not too much.

If the coin has any numismatic value then don't do anything to it. 99% of all the coins you find CRHing will have almost zero numismatic (if you are doing halves) value so clean away if you like it.

Toning does not diminish the silver value.

Jim

Not sure about that.. although I haven't dipped a full black coin in Ezest, I've read on PCGS forums that many people consider old blast white coins in PCGS holders to have been dipped at one point or another. I do have a coin that I want to dip because it is all black but haven't gotten around to the experiment.

As far as tarnish goes, it's just corrosion like rust. I had a clipped 1965 half that I cleaned by using soap and water a while back. It ended up looking like it's been cleaned since it showed all the minor scratches. I just put in a cardboard holder and after a few years, it retoned and the scratches are not so noticeable. Toning can be good if it's rainbow toning. People pay moon money for rainbow toned uncirculated ones on Ebay.

 

[TheRockDoc]

Re: Need a little help for those CRH finds that are "black with tarnish"

Thanks for all the great info everyone, Have I mentioned how much I love this website right now? I have learned sooo much in the two weeks that I have known about it. Thank you everyone.

So after reading these posts, I am understanding that the black "tarnish" or "corrossion" or whatever it is that makes some of these silver coins turn black is not actually hurting the silver content? Would anyone disagree with that?


Thanks again, Chris.

 

[jim4silver]

Re: Need a little help for those CRH finds that are "black with tarnish"

It's not recommended to do cleaning but it is okay to dip the coins to get rid of unattractive toning.

Ezest can be bought at any coin shop and can be used to get rid of toning. If you don't like the way it looks afterwards, you can always retone it all over again.

I am very new to all of this, How would one go about retoning a silver coin all over again

You should know that dipping a coin IS cleaning and an experienced coin enthusiast can spot a coin that has been dipped, and even one that is re toned afterward. Once a coin has gone past a certain level toning-wise (when it looks black as you say), it is impossible to get it to look normal by dipping. If it is just mildly exhibiting toning, you can make it look good if you do it correctly. Dipping utilizes mild acids that eat away a microscopic layer and can remove the original mint luster if not done just right. When a coin lacks its original mint luster you can spot it right away if you know what to look for. Even a toned coin can exhibit mint luster to some extent if it has not been cleaned and the toning is not too much.

If the coin has any numismatic value then don't do anything to it. 99% of all the coins you find CRHing will have almost zero numismatic (if you are doing halves) value so clean away if you like it.

Toning does not diminish the silver value.

Jim

Not sure about that.. although I haven't dipped a full black coin in Ezest, I've read on PCGS forums that many people consider old blast white coins in PCGS holders to have been dipped at one point or another. I do have a coin that I want to dip because it is all black but haven't gotten around to the experiment.

As far as tarnish goes, it's just corrosion like rust. I had a clipped 1965 half that I cleaned by using soap and water a while back. It ended up looking like it's been cleaned since it showed all the minor scratches. I just put in a cardboard holder and after a few years, it retoned and the scratches are not so noticeable. Toning can be good if it's rainbow toning. People pay moon money for rainbow toned uncirculated ones on Ebay.

I use both Ezest and Tarnx. I have tried to dip heavily toned halves and they come out a weird gray color that shows clearly they have been dipped.

You are correct about many old silver dollars. One of my coin dealers "carefully dips" some silver dollars he gets in and they pass BU if otherwise in great shape. Many old coins that are graded by the coin grading companies (referring to gold coins now, which is what I have the most experience with) have been carefully dipped. It took me along time to learn to identify it, and when I get graded coins I will avoid those that appear to have been dipped at one time, even though they may have an MS64 grade, etc. Many collectors don't like the original finish of old gold coins that have not been dipped, they appear more of an orange-ish tone, and will often be uneven in color to a slight degree. I prefer them that way as long as there are no copper spots.

But for the average collector, they would take a chance of messing up a nice silver coin to try and clean it themselves. In my opinion a silver coin from 100 years ago or more is not going to remain blast white all these years without some type of cleaning, unless very carefully stored under proper conditions. Silver coins can tone quickly if given the right circumstances.

Jim