Need help grading two nice finds...

[Gridwalker306]

I found these 2 halves (along with an 1896 Morgan) in the same hole back in October. The 1904 has no mintmark, but is in such nice condition that I think it's quite valuable. The 1896 is not quite as nice, but has the 'S' mintmark to increase it's value (semi-key?). Anyway, I am nervous about sending them in the mail to be graded professionally, especially when I don't accurately know how to insure them for their trip.

Any thoughts on their grading or value would be great...

Happy new year! Mike

 

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[Tuberale]

JUST MY OPINION:

The 1904 appears to be VF or better; may be Double Died; Motto is complete and clear, most horizontal bands on shield reverse visible.

1896 S would grade VG8 to VG11: lacks a complete LIBERTY IMO, plus lack of defined rays in stars obverse, so below F12.

Both coins need careful conservation: both have what appear to be pin marks or pock-marks which would be considered damage. But markings _might_ just be soil. So ... coins need surfaces GENTLY cleaned with Q-tips tipped in acetone, and wiped in a soft, circular motion around the coin surfaces. If a Q-tip becomes dirtly quickly, switch to a new Q-tip. If you have not done this before, it is best to have someone experienced with the technique perform the cleaning for you.

Much depends on the condition of the coin after careful cleaning. The only appropriate cleaning method for collector's coins is acetone and fluffy cotton swabs, which are unlikely to further damage patina or existing markings/scratches. Acetone may also remove extraneous dirt from within the letters of both coins.

 

[KJW]

I would guess the 1904 at XF to AU condition. I would guess the 1896-S at VF or better. Below is a link to an 1896-S that sold on ebay for over $300 and your coin looks better than it does. I would have these coins graded by PCGS or ANACS if you want to get really good money out of them and study up on die varieties, you might have a rare variety. I know nothing about Barber Half varieties. I think the title of the Barber Half Die Variety Book is "The Authoritative Reference on Barber Half Dollars" - By Kevin Flyn

I have not graded many barber coins so my grades might be off a little bit.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1896-S-BARBER-H...52?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item230c9659d8

You found some really nice coins and I would not get rid of them until you have done as much research as possible on them.

Kris

 

[Iron Patch]

Is there any particular reason you want to send them in? I really don't see anything positive in it whether you plan to keep them or sell. If it's simply about the value that is pretty easy to make a close guess at.

 

[fistfulladirt]

If they are dug/cleaned coins, from what I have read they will be graded as damaged/cleaned or be refused grading period.

 

[Tuberale]

If they are dug/cleaned coins, from what I have read they will be graded as damaged/cleaned or be refused grading period.

Not necessarily. There are several caches of important coins which have been professionally graded. And salt water exposure damages silver coins more than gold, but several shipwrecks have had silver coins graded.

These coins are not highest grades, but certainly very high grade. Of course, only one way to find out.

 

[scotty1418]

I'd concur with previous comments - the 1904 looks at least AU-50 min and the 1896 appears VF. I'd recommend due to the fact that each appear to be $300+ coins that for value purposes they be graded - ANACS is cheapest and easiest.

It'd be a much tougher sell raw. A lot of times ground dug coins will 'no grade' but I think from the images these appear to have nice original surfaces.

Congrats on the find!

 

[fistfulladirt]

just for the record, i think they are both fine coins in great condition.

 

[Gridwalker306]

Thanks everybody for the helpful information. The reason I am curious about their grading is because I agree with Scotty1418, I think they are fairly valuable...valuable enough to warrant some further checking into.

Fistfulladirt, thanks for the reply...but I can't imagine that all 'dug' coins will be overlooked by the graders. What's the difference? Especially if they are in good condition, (we all dig up coins that look like they have been buried forever, but every once in a while a coin comes up that looks like it just left the mint).

Tuberale, why do you think it may be double died? I'll do some research, but can you point out where you see something that makes you think that? I'd be excited if it was double died!!!

And finally, there is a very small amount of soil left on the coins. If I use acetone, wouldn't that make it a coin susceptible to being disregarded as "cleaned" by a grading service?

Sorry to blather on and on...I just want to do the right thing! Thanks everybody....Mike

 

[Tuberale]

The obverse of the 1904 has a possible doubled star to the left of IN (DDO); DDR also possible, based on 1st A in AMERICA; OF; and outline of eagle's head. These areas could also just be smudges of dirt, so must have coin cleaned with acetone for confirmation. Acetone might also prove coin has pin damage and may reduce the overall grade. In other words, are those black dots dirt or actual holes filled with dirt?

The 1896 S needs to have a completely visible LIBERTY in the headband to grade F12, and I see only partial letters on the L and R. While this is certainly close to a Fine 12, it does not completely match the requirements given in Photograde. There are other criteria as well, and the condition of the headband in particular may raise the overall grade for a professional grader, which I am not.

 

[Iron Patch]

This is only based on a few minutes looking and thinking about this... but is how I see it.

Below is a link to an Ebay one which sold for $269 and the seller based on his listings I would say knows what he is doing, and the price is probably fair. It's a slight better grade than your coin, but note the toning... which is where yours will lose because a grading service will almost certainly label it "cleaned". So comparing to the Redbook the Ebay one is probably considered about AU, and if yours is marked cleaned you have to consider losing at least two grades, leaving it at a net grade of no more than VF, and maybe $100 coin. Then you deduct the $25 or so for the service and your left with a $75 coin. If you don't send it in you save the $25, and get more in the $150+ range selling to people like some in this thread which in my opinion are overstating the grade and value because the coin has such great eye appeal. Just think about it, had you posted it and it said cleaned, I don't think you would have got the high estimates you did. Anyway, I doubt you're going to sell it, so why even both letting such a nice coin take a trip anywhere. Even the best case scenario it's not going to make you rich so just protect it, and enjoy it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1904-Barber-Hal...18?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item255fef3d1a

 

[Gridwalker306]

I understand the appeal of toning...but I seriously haven't cleaned these coins, and I'm the first person to have touched them in at least a hundred years. If the grading service labeled them as 'cleaned' it would be very inaccurate and I would be upset.
Is it better to have a coin that has toning and age, or a coin that has NOT been cleaned and still has mint lustre? I'm confused.

Anyway, these coins are never going to be for sale, I just wanted some opinions, and thanks to everybody who contributed! I'm going to put them away and keep digging for more!

 

[Iron Patch]

I understand the appeal of toning...but I seriously haven't cleaned these coins, and I'm the first person to have touched them in at least a hundred years. If the grading service labeled them as 'cleaned' it would be very inaccurate and I would be upset.
Is it better to have a coin that has toning and age, or a coin that has NOT been cleaned and still has mint lustre? I'm confused.

Anyway, these coins are never going to be for sale, I just wanted some opinions, and thanks to everybody who contributed! I'm going to put them away and keep digging for more!

The surface/scratching seen with magnification is why it would be considered cleaned. It's just how it is for dug silver coins and has nothing to do with anything you did. I have seen many beautiful dug coins posted, and almost all of them, if not all, are marked either as having environmental damage, or cleaned.

I think putting them away and digging for more is the right call.

 

[tdec1000]

Very nice finds!! Both coins have been cleaned and will go genuine or net details graded. The first one looks like a nice AU coin and the second is a VF coin. Like I said both have been cleaned but are still quite nice and will command some decent bids at auction.

Tom

 

[Gridwalker306]

Tom, I appreciate your thoughts on the grading, but why did you say that "both coins have been cleaned"? I swear on my life they HAVE NOT BEEN CLEANED. I dug them up, so I can handle the term "environmental damage" I suppose, but I am not stupid enough to clean these coins. If I would have cleaned them, I would have gotten the small bits of loose soil from around the date and other details.

 

[Iron Patch]

Tom, I appreciate your thoughts on the grading, but why did you say that "both coins have been cleaned"? I swear on my life they HAVE NOT BEEN CLEANED. I dug them up, so I can handle the term "environmental damage" I suppose, but I am not stupid enough to clean these coins. If I would have cleaned them, I would have gotten the small bits of loose soil from around the date and other details.

Because if something is in pieces on the floor it doesn't matter if you dropped it, or smashed it with the hammer, the end result is how someone else is going to "grade" it.