Need some research ideas on white onyx stone bow pin

[desertmoons]

Well..its been a few weeks and I just can not narrow it down on this garage sale find. It might mean this brooch is modern...but the pin in back makes me wonder.

So..whats your first impression..Old? New? Its made of stone that clunks against the teeth..feels like marble I guess. (Does ivory feel like that?) I've searched japanese onyx bows, victorian onyx bows and a lot of other things with with no luck.

I'm thinking it has Japanese influence with the flowers on it?

I could use some ideas on how to categorize this so I can find the right search terms. Any thoughts or ideas welcome!

The stone.. I do not know if it is real. It seems like a pretty nice setting..but it sure is glittery inside. I just do not know. I do need to wash it up a bit. Thanks for any ideas!

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A History of Mining on the Kenai Peninsula, Alaska - Grab it through Amazon!

[vpnavy]

Can't help ya but it is a nice find desertmoons!

 

[Metro Retro]

Cool find! It's hard to tell from here what the material is, but it could be carved bone or vegetable ivory for example.

That bezel looks like silver and so you likely have a gemstone of some sort (pink tourmaline?), plus it has fittings in back -- and so someone took a lot of time to make this.

You really need a loupe, but if you don't have one, try to check the pattern under the best magnification you can, and compare it to the different ivories out there (e.g. elephant has a cross hatch pattern, etc.) by googling.

 

[diggummup]

It's not onyx. It may be ivory or bone, does it feel cool when you put it against your cheek?

 

[capt-zero]

I'm pretty sure it's not ivory. The design on the front looks molded rather than carved. I don't see any sign of pores so I don't think it's bone either. It might be celluloid. Is that a mold mark just above and to the right of the pin back in the third pic? However, the pin back does have early 20th century styling, probably about 1920? The stone does appear to be a gemstone instead of glass. I don't agree about it's being Japanese, though, the flowers appear to be daisies instead of chrysanthemums on the front. I would suggest you take it to a jeweler you trust for an expert opinion. Nice find.

 

[Metro Retro]

If one looks carefully, one can see that the item is carved and not molded, and so not a plastic or celluloid.

Also, that's a Victorian pinback, which not only predates the use of celluloid as jewelry, but unlikely that a jeweler is going to make silver fittings and a beaded silver bezel (looks like sterling or coin) for use in a plastic or unsturdy material.

Desertmoons, if you take this to a jeweler, be sure you go to one who is experienced in antique and estate jewelry (and even then). Stay away from those mall jewelers and 'we buy gold' places. Also, be ready to pay for an appraisal if you truly want to know what you have -- even if it's just a few bucks for them to eye-ball it for you and give you a verbal one.

If the first thing you're asked is, 'do you want to sell' or 'how much do you want for it', be sure to walk out, since you won't be dealing with anyone of high ethics. Good luck.

 

[desertmoons]

Thank you kindly for all the ideas. I sure needed them. It is cool when held to the skin. Who knows it might be white glass..like milk glass. I did get all squinty eyed over it with a magnifying glass. There is a surprise. The whole back of the pin seems to be the same material but i see little groove around most of the edges. As if they might have taken a very very slim slice of the material to make a reinforcing backing. The mold mark sort of triangular..is a piece of the backing missing on purpose or not. Unless they grooved it like that for some other purpose..hmmm.

I do see some grain on one end but it reminds me of what an agate might look like. Some parallel lines, then some circular. Well.that might be hippo ivory..but to me it looks more like a rock or stone type thing. Maybe even imperfections in glass. I can not decide if carved or molded. It feels rather sharp..but we will see.

I will take it to my once in while jeweler in next couple of days and see what he say. Then..on to the Estate Jeweler we have in town. Thank you for the excellent ideas and advice and education!
I'll let you know what I find out!

 

[desertmoons]

Just wanted to give an update. With the great ideas you all gave, I did some research.

Victorian/Edwarian jewelry did use bone, ivory, west african white agate and parian. Parian is a bisque like ceramic or porcelain that can be carved and or molded. It was a substitute for ivory.
Typically you will see jugs or jars but it was used in jewelry too.

I also found there are good videos at Vimeo on how to date jewelry clasps!

I took it to the local mineral shop. Its a really good place. The nice older guy offered to run a refractive index on the stone for 2.00. A refractive index is used to identify gemstones. He could not get a good reading ..he thought perhaps because a " prong was sticking up from the table". I,,nodded knowingly....then asked..what does that mean? He felt a piece of the bezel was interfering with the index. He would not venture a guess saying it could be glass, garnet, treated quartz or topaz. No charge.

He saw the backing I mentioned..and suggested I do the hot pin test on both the backing and the front part of the white bow and pointed out where i could access the front bow material from the back of the pin. So I will..I guess..unless there are better ideas. He ventured it might be bone..but not sure.

Just thought you'd like to know the progress on this.

 

[Metro Retro]

Great update Desertmoons -- however, I have some comments.

This does not look like parian to me, and in fact, does appear to be either an animal or vegetable ivory as stated previously. If you could take some good sharp close-up pics in good lighting (avoiding the heavy yellow lighting or any blue lighting), we could likely identify it here.

Regarding the refractive check, doesn't it work best with open back settings? Either way, it was nice of this person to do it for free.

But here is where I get on my soapbox .... *please* do not hot pin this. Please do not hot pin anything, ever. It's not necessary and the inexperienced people who do this, not only damage the item, but don't know what it is that they are looking for anyway.

Did he explain what the hot pinning was going to prove? On the chance that it's celluloid, you could start a fire and get burned. Celluloid has the habit of "popping" when heated and can flick out right into a person's eye or skin and cause a third degree burn. I don't believe that it is celluloid, but please do not do this.

If it is bone or an ivory, it will leave a dark brown or black ugly mark -- which only succeeds in damaging and devaluing the piece. If he's insinuating that it's Bakelite, it's not. The one test that he needed to do for you was to acid test that silver, so that he could tell you the fineness. Doing so could have provided a clue as to country of origin possibly.

Off my soapbox now. It's still a great piece, but a jeweler who handles antique jewelry is going to be your best bet.

 

[Metro Retro]

P.S. If that pinback weren't so old, I would have suggested Galalith. However, the fittings would predate it.

 

[capt-zero]

One test you can do yourself and rule out bone, is to look at it closely with a ten power loupe. If it is bone, it will have numerous tiny pores in it. Bone, unlike ivory, is living tissue; and as such has a blood supply. There will always be remnants of the capillary passages in bone and they are usually easy to see.