New info--excaliber to challenge Radio Shack & Garrett

[bergie]

New info--excaliber to challenge Radio Shack & Garrett

Goldfever will hit the same site this Sunday (Aug 6th) with his Excaliber.

HollowPointred will get started on the challenge on Friday morning through Saturday, so it will be a good sample. He should be able to cover a good portion of the site where the silver has been found. I'm sure he'll post the results when he can.


The Challenge--

Over the past couple of years I have "searched out" an old swimming hole on private property where only I have permission (and it is in a small town and unknown). This is in NY not far from Newburgh, NY. It was virgin when I got there and I found about 35 silver coins and one colonial copper among other things. I have rarely dug mid range tones because I'd rather avoid the junk (so there could be gold and I have found a couple of buffalo nickles digging some of those tones). So, even if it is hunted out for silver, you could find good stuff in the mid range. Here's what I'd like to prove or disprove. I have a Radio Shack, Bounty Hunter. I'd like someone with a really high end detector to get in there and see if they can find any more silver (prove or disprove what I read about those detectors going deeper). I have always found alot of stuff, but would like to know if I'm actually missing stuff. Like I said, even if you don't find silver, there could be some other good stuff in there on the mid-range. This was a swimming hole for decades along a creek for the town and a resort in the town. It is about 100 yards long by anywhere from 15 yards to 50 yards wide. There is no catch. I have a great relationship with the owner and will work it out so you can go on the site. I would like to get one person who lives near enough that they will spend some time at the site and really get some data on this question and share it with those on Treasurenet after covering a large section or all of the site. If I get a lot of replies I'll have to turn away some people, so you'll have to understand. Send me message if you are seriously interested and nearby enough to do it and have a high quality detector. Would also appreciate suggestions from anyone who would identify best few detectors I should look for in doing this test. (Coins I have found range from one 1700s -- no date readable colonial copper, 1899 Barber Half, to lots of mercs, a few standing libs, washington quarters and rosies all silver. Lots of wheats)

 

[Sandman]

Re: Updated/Prove a high end detector better than Radio Shack?

Monty says it well with his post. There are a few great machines that work poorly in the hands of a inexperienced hunter just as there are medium priced detectors that score well in the hands of someone that has been at this hobby awhile. Also what works well in one area of the country works poorly in another due to settings, etc.

Lets all keep an open mind here.

sandman

 

[hollowpointred]

Re: Updated/Prove a high end detector better than Radio Shack?

Monty says it well with his post. There are a few great machines that work poorly in the hands of a inexperienced hunter just as there are medium priced detectors that score well in the hands of someone that has been at this hobby awhile. Also what works well in one area of the country works poorly in another due to settings, etc.

Lets all keep an open mind here.

sandman

i agree with this 100%. i have had the gti 2500 for roughly 7 months and i figure i have hunted with it around 200 hours or so. i am pretty comfortable with the machine at this point. i am looking at this as an experiment and not a competition. in my opinion this isnt about a garrett machine or a minelab machine or a bounty hunter, its about a high dollar machine and a low dollar machine. even though the results of this will be un scientific it will be interesting nonetheless. at the very least, it will be fun doing the hunts, even if nothing turns up. i would like to believe that no place is ever truely hunted out no matter what machine you use. i will post results sometime on sunday unless bergie beats me to it.

 

[DKinPA]

Re: Updated/Prove a high end detector better than Radio Shack?

Hey guys (and/or girls) ....this is an excellent idea!! I have been following this thread for a few days and I can't wait for the results. I am still fairly "green" at this hobby, even after about 18 months. Of course that 18 months has consisted of a lot more work and family responsibilities than detecting.
I have often thought about being able to do this exact thing on some old school sites in my area because you know that feeling you get that says "there has to be more here than I'm finding"....well this seems like Bergie has figured out a way to answer the question.

Thanks for the experiment guys, can't wait for the Sunday post.

DKinPA

 

[bergie]

Re: Updated/Prove a high end detector better than Radio Shack?

Remember all, the true way to judge this will be on the silver found by Hollowpointred. I expect him to find some old nickels and perhaps some other good stuff in that mid range, because I rarely dug those signals. I was going after that silver with everything, avoiding many other signals to cover as much ground and maximize my time in finding silver. So, when evaluating this later, the key will be how much silver does he find. If he finds a few silvers, it will be interesting to note the depth, because if deep they will be ones my detector didn't pick up, if shallow just ones I missed (the latter really would surprise me, aside from the odd coin or two max). If he finds a bunch of silver, then clearly it's the benefit of a better machine. I really have covered this place well for silver/copper tones.

 

[Monty]

Re: Updated/Prove a high end detector better than Radio Shack?

And you forgot to add, as in many cases, the silver just may not be there. I have hunted many places where it would be expected to find silver and came up empty handed. I'm sure all of us have had the same experience. Monty

 

[bergie]

Re: Updated/Prove a high end detector better than Radio Shack?

Monty,
But since I found around 30-35 silver coins at this site with the bounty hunter, if little or no other silver is found with the "better" ("deeper") machine, it would show that the bounty hunter/radio shack is as valid as the high end detector for an old coin site.

 

[bazinga]

Re: Updated/Prove a high end detector better than Radio Shack?

Monty,
But since I found around 30-35 silver coins at this site with the bounty hunter, if little or no other silver is found with the "better" ("deeper") machine, it would show that the bounty hunter/radio shack is as valid as the high end detector for an old coin site.

No, it just means that there weren't any deeper silver coins to be dug. They were all shallow enough for any detector to pick up.

 

[rvbvetter]

Re: Updated/Prove a high end detector better than Radio Shack?

I've had the pleasure of detecting with Bergie. And he is very good with his detector.
So I think this would be an excellent test of machines. Because if Bergie missed any silver, it would be no fault of his. But rather a lack of performance from his detector.
Just wondering though. Instead of just seeing if more silver could be found. What about copper coins? Many can give a signal near to what silver can (high tone). And being that a colonial copper was found there.
Would finding more coppers be considered as evidence or proof that a high end detector out performed the Bounty Hunter? HH

 

[rcasi44]

Re: Updated/Prove a high end detector better than Radio Shack?

I've found silver dimes at 4, 6, and 8". These were strong signals. I haven't found any deeper at this site. Does this mean my MXT won't find any deeper? I don't think so because the signals were stong. The flaw with the test is that if hollowpointed finds more shallow silver, then Bergie wasn't careful. If he finds more deep silver he or his detector might be better. If he doesn't find any deep silver it just might not be there.The last option proves nothing. Rob

 

[hollowpointred]

Re: Updated/Prove a high end detector better than Radio Shack?

well I'm back from the challenge! i shot some pictures and i have to get them developed, but i decided to post and tell everyone what happened now rather than later. i will post the camera pictures at a later date. i hunted the site for about 8 hours over the course of two days. i should mention that the site was a bit harder to search than i think bergie remembers it due to the high grass and poisen ivy. i will post pictures at a later date to explain what i mean, but a lot of the site had waist high grass covering it, and in some spots it was as much as chest high! this made it extremely hard to swing a coil ( if not impossible in some spots). there was also some vicious poisen ivy in some spots that prevented me from hitting them as well. in all honesty i was able to cover about half of the site. to make this a fair challenge, i think someone should go back and hit it in the fall or winter when the vegetation dies away. well, I'm sure the question that has been on everyones mind is "did i find any silver coins?" well, I'm sure the results will spark much debate and argument. (you didn't think this would be cut and dry did you!? )
the answer to the question is....................NO! i did not find any silver coins!!however............... i did find 7 wheat cents and an old copper flat button that would have rung in as a high tone on bergies machine. 5 of these targets were at a depth of between 6 and 8 inches with two of the pennies at a shallower 3 to 4 inches. to bergies credit, these were not solid obvious targets, but were those " sound good only in one direction" kind of targets. they were also very close to trash and pulltabs (something the site has a lot of!) half of this site is in a wooded area and i don't believe that any coins would have sunk any deeper than say 8 inches or so due to the roots under the soil. in fact there were many pulltabs from the 70s that were on the surface and didn't sink at all. the other half of the site is an open field, and i would imagine that this part would hold some real deepies. the problem i had was with the tall weeds and scattered poisen ivy which prevented me from searching the whole area.i was able to find a silver plated spoon with a patent date of June 1908 on it in this area though, and i am confidant that i missed 80% of the ground with my coil due to the obstacles. in my opinion this area still holds a lot of potential. i tried to post a scan of the spoon but the file is too big. i will try again with one of the pictures i took with a camera when i get the pics developed.
i got to thinking about what this challenge was really about, a high dollar machine vs a low dollar machine. i truly think that in this instance bergies machine had enough depth to find 90% of the coins this spot holds. i think that is why i didn't find any real solid targets in spots that bergie said he had hit hard. the coins that i did recover in spots that bergie had pounded were sitting very close to pulltabs and foil. that makes me think that i found them due to my machines ability to pick them out when they were close to trash (target separation). above all else i think that good technique and experience are far more important than depth or target separation. bergie proved this theory himself with the lack of targets he had missed with his low dollar machine. he is a hell of a detectorist , and obviously knows what he is doing. i only found a handfull of high targets that he missed with the expensive machine, and i would say that in his hands his radio shack detector is pretty damn good!
i was surprised that i didn't find any Indians or Buffalo's since i was digging almost every target. i think that, given more time they would have turned up. two days just wasn't enough time to dig the amount of low tone trashy targets that are at this site. i did find two memorials and a Jefferson nickel, and i feel pretty confidant that they are there somewhere. i also think that there must be some more silver hiding under some of the more recent trash. if i were bergie i would make this spot an ongoing project, whenever i had some extra time, and clean out all of the trash. I'm sure that there are more good things there still left to find! its just that now they are all the tricky targets!
in closing i would like to publicly thank bergie and the land owner for allowing me to hunt this spot. even though i found no silver coins, it is a beautiful spot, as is the town it is located in, and i had a great weekend! it was also nice to meet bergie face to face even though we didn't get to hunt together. (this was a busy weekend for him!) maybe another time bud!
im sure there will be many opinions and debate over what detector i used or my experience level or my technique... all i can say is i did my best, and these were the results.like i said above, i think this challenge warrents another look by someone in the fall/winter when more of the site is accessible.


...................................oh i almost forgot! :P the dates on the wheat's were as follows

1915
1920
1923
1929
1938
1939
1945
i will also post a scan of the button. if any of you button experts can put a date on this thing bergie and i would both appreciate it! it looks to me like its from at least the early 1900s but could be much older (colonial?) it is slightly larger than a us quarter.

 

[bergie]

Re: Updated/Prove a high end detector better than Radio Shack?

Keith,
Great to have you up this way and only disappointed I couldn't join you for a beer and some detecting. Ended up down at the NJ shore with my family (and detected the beach for the first time). I'd say your machine definately found stuff I missed, because those wheats would have been the same tone as silver on my detector. I should have mentioned that and Rvbvetter mention this important point, that those coins could also be ones I missed. It just happens to be lousy luck that they weren't silver. Based on the fact you couldn't cover much of the site due to vegitation, I bet you would pick up at least one or two or more silver based on law of averages that additional old coins won't all be wheats. I hadn't been to the site in a long time and never had the grass so high, but if I had thought about it, with the amazing amount of rain we've had all Summer, it makes sense and you are right, it is a very bare site in the fall/winter. Not sure we resolved anything, but clearly your machine must be better in many instances since you found things I should have found. You didn't mention in your post, but mentioned some depths to me on the phone and it sounds like some wheats were deeper than perhaps my machine could get (over 6-7 inches or in that area). Also does sound like your ability to pick out good signals in trash is a big help, so maybe it's not all about depth. I think anyone who is really serious about detecting should have as good a machine as possible if you are going to spend that much time detecting (including me). I do think there must be things I am missing, but I think I'm finding the majority of things. This has been interesting and look forward to feedback from others. Thanks for making it up here, Keith. I'm glad we had a chance to meet on Friday.

 

[hollowpointred]

Re: Updated/Prove a high end detector better than Radio Shack?

I do think there must be things I am missing, but I think I'm finding the majority of things.

i think this kind of sums up this experiment. i think that some of the lower dollar machines are quite good for the money, and you should only probably spend the big $$ if you are serious about your detecting. its debateable about how much stuff you are missing though because i know you can miss stuff with a high dollar machine too, if your technique isn't dead on ( and who's isall of the time??)all in all i guess its kind of like cars, a cheap one will get you there but a nice one is more fun to drive!

 

[DKinPA]

Re: Updated/Prove a high end detector better than Radio Shack?

I would like to say Thank You to you two guys for putting in the time and effort for this experiment. Maybe the results were not as dramatic as expected but following this thread has been fun.

Thanks again!!

DKinPA

 

[jeff of pa]

Re: Updated/Prove a high end detector better than Radio Shack?

nice button

 

[j.d. in the usa]

Re: Updated/Prove a high end detector better than Radio Shack?

Heres an experiment I held in April 2004... these are the actual posts...

You have to ask yourself are you Man or Woman enough to take the challenge?
Heres the details many of my major finds have come from 1 spot
The miltary buttons,colonial shoe buckles,buttons attatched to part of the uniform, my emerald ring, gold locket w/hair, lead soldiers and toys,lady mini pic, over 75 silver and copper coins pre 1870-1700's.
I have found everything my XLT can find there I spent 3 days this week about 4 hours at a time and found nothing I believe there are still many things left. And that no 1 machine can find everything. Now is the time to put up or shut !! I'm inviting anyone who wants to come and try there shot at finding something I missed so you fisher, minelab, garrett, shadow, dfx, boys who know there machines go deep leave a message here and I will take you to my honey hole the spot I've been keeping a secret. jd

Ocean 7 came to the challenge with his Minelab EX II He is a very advanced user actually he's the best I have ever hunted with I've seen him pull stuff out that would amaze you...here was his response after he took my challenge...

well buzzard's pay it was...lol Spent about half day at site and the best I came up with was cut nails. Talk about trash - nada! Who is next? knock em dead! lol And no posting bogus finds either!

JD you did a pretty good job of cleaning this place, IMO. I could spend more time there but my gut tells me to move on...
Ocean 7_________________


it was a fun time!!! hh all

 

[Ramapirate]

Re: Updated/Prove a high end detector better than Radio Shack?

Here's the deal-eo... There are those of us that paid $40.00 for a used pawn shop Discovery 2000 and have found probably $150.00 worth of coins and sterling jewelry and are happy with that for at least the time being. I went and hoisted up an Ace 250 which would be a step up from where I'm at now. They weigh about twice as much (the guy in the store said the coil had 3x more wraps than mine and I believe him) I also went and looked at a $1100.00 White's in a coastal N.C. town (he's the only guy that sells White's in this coastal N.C. town so I won't mention the name of the town) and the guy in the shop talked about my Discovery 2000 like it was a loop of baleing wire tied to a stick and was completely worthless, why would I waste my time? He is the type person that kills the thrill and I'd never buy anything from him.
Encourage those who have little inexpensive mds and grow the hobby. Today's kid (or old 46 year old guy like me) swingin' a cheapo and having fun doing it could be the cat buying a Tesoro or Minelab on down the road. I'm going to get a chance to go up against some bigger dogs in a couple of weeks at my first club hunt since I joined the first of this month (Metal Detectors Association of the Carolinas). I look forward to seeing what I'm missing if anything. If I am, at that point I'll upgrade, but still not break the bank. It's a process...

Keep mding,
Ramapirate

 

[Gribnitz]

Re: Updated/Prove a high end detector better than Radio Shack?

In all honestly it all depends on the soil conditions. If you have soft sandy soil, the stuff is going to sink DEEP. You are going to need a detector that will see deep to find it. If your soil hits clay at 6 inches, guess what ? Your not going to find much past 6 inches. Another spot is plowed fields. You are going to find some stuff close to the surface from being turned up to the top, but a lot of stuff is going to get buried DEEP and never see the light of day again without a deep seeking detector. The only real way to compare is to take different detectors to a place objects sink deep and see if each can hit targets, dig them up and see what they are.

 

[Monty]

Re: Updated/Prove a high end detector better than Radio Shack?

I've always thought that BH was underrated and have expressed that opinion several times. I started with a BH, one of their more advanced models, the LandRanger and found a lot of "stuff". My next step was an ACE 250 and I actually found the BH to be more sophisticated to use than the ACE, the most outstanding difference was the ability to manually ground balance the BH. When I first started metal detecting I took the BH to a middle school auditorium that apparently had never been hunted as the ground in front was literally thick with shallow clad and I found a pocket full for about 3 trips. I went back with the ACE and again when I got my GTI 2500 and found very little that I had missed with the BH. The school is not that old and I found very few coins deeper than 4", mostly at 2" or less. Before the school was built the land was unimproved pasture and never used by modern man for anything else so there was really no artifacts to recover. Anyway, I still take my BH for a spin on occasion just so I won't forget how to operate it and I loan it out to friends who get curious about the hobby. And it is a hobby to me although I know some take it very seriously. Just an after thought, and the experiment was interesting although I am not too surprised at the results. I don't think it would have turned out much different with any other detector given the conditions encountered. Nice going hollowtrec and thanks for writing up the results. Keep at it! Monty

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

Re: Updated/Prove a high end detector better than Radio Shack?

Hmmm should we unleash an Explorer on the site and see what surfaces?

 

[JW]

Re: Updated/Prove a high end detector better than Radio Shack?

Yeah yeah yeah.