Newbie - getting permission question

[bcurrey]

I new to MDing. I have a few questions on how to get permission to hunt on property.

1) I've read here on the forums that my city was considering banning MD on city property about 4 years ago. Looking online there is no mention of MD rules. In fact there is no ordinances or anything online. Do I call someone and ask? I assume I'll get the typical "no" if I do. How do I proceed?
2) Looking at local land records I found a rich guy that lives about 5 hours away owns quite a bit of land. It's a matter of time before medical offices are built on the land. I know the guys mailing address based on online searches. Do I mail him a letter asking permission?
3) there is commercial land for sale I want to search on. Do I call the realtor and ask permission?

Just not sure how to proceed on these scenarios. I assume these pieces of land have been searched before fairly heavily as they are very close to a civil war battlefield. Thanks for your help!

 

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[recentlycured]

I am fairly new as well...I have a few parks I can metal detect and it is legal...just always research you local park laws online or call tparks and recreation.I have never asked anyone for permission though I know it will happen eventually.Five hours seems a long way to go if you think it has been hit hard already...I have had some cool finds in my own yard....you will be surprised at how much you can find locally no matter where you live....if people were around the area there is a good chance things were dropped or lost.I would make sure if you talk or write anyone about their property to just remember not to be pushy,be polite,state upfront how you will be as neat as possible and fill the hole back in.I have aslo read about how if met with rekuctance people offer to split or share the finds with the land or homeowner...hope this helps Hapoy Hunting and keep us posted on how you make out

 

[fella]

Public land with no ordinances = DO NOT ask permission! Just do it!

Private property = ALWAYS ask permission from owner.

Commercial land is owned by someone, the realtor can get you that info. Then ask permission from property owner!

 

[christo000]

Do ur research & if there r no signs posted then use ur best judgement as of a private land owner id advise not mailing a letter id b willing to bet ull get a no I mean think about it if some random person mailed u a letter askin to come to ur house site un seen & dig what would u say ? Go to the door better ur odds

 

[bcurrey]

Ok, another question. One spot I want to look at is along a river about half a mile from a battlefield. The city owns about 50 acres which includes the land up to the river. There are no gates or signs saying keep out. I think it's a water/sewage plant. The river is on the front edge of the property while the buildings are on the backside. Does that fall under the "public property" category assuming I find no keep out signs?

 

[recentlycured]

I don't want to steer you wrong but I would say go for it....if maps do not show anything and there are no signs if it was me I would detect it.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Ok, another question. One spot I want to look at is along a river about half a mile from a battlefield. The city owns about 50 acres which includes the land up to the river. There are no gates or signs saying keep out. I think it's a water/sewage plant. The river is on the front edge of the property while the buildings are on the backside. Does that fall under the "public property" category assuming I find no keep out signs?

bcurrey,

Regarding your first question, you say: "I've read here on the forums that my city was considering banning MD on city property about 4 years ago." Well, you don't say what city, and you don't say what it was you heard, that caused your (or the people who said or wrote something) felt that a "law was imminent" or that it was "being considered". There's a LOT of those kind of skittish fears that circulate, but never amount to anything. You know, like one person gets a busy-body gardener or dog-walker gripe at them, so they go on forums lamenting how the end-of-the-world is coming to their town (as if one griper automatically means "a law or rule is soon-to-come"?).

So you'd need to be a little more specific on what it was, you heard or read "about 4 yrs. ago", in order for anyone to evaluate further. But actually, your next statement though, may just put an end to any such question or worry anyhow:

" Looking online there is no mention of MD rules. In fact there is no ordinances or anything online."

Are you saying you found your city's ordinances and parks codes clearly listed on-line (like a city website, or whatever), and it has no mention of any prohibitions on detecting? If that's what you're saying, then it seems to me that should answer your question: Nothing became of whatever someone wrote 4 yrs. ago (perhaps someone with a chicken-little worry over a single busy-body?). But to be sure, you'd need to shed light on: a) did you find your parks rules and muni codes, and did it have nothing regarding detectors. And b) what did you read or hear that was something supposedly in-the-works 4 yrs. ago.

You've also got to realize that sometimes there may not be any actual "rule" or "law" about a certain activity, but there may be a POLICY. By that I mean, that.... any "duly appointed official" is granted the leeway to interpret laws as he sees fit, to apply to a myriad of circumstances as they arise in the field. You know, that's why their nebulous and vague laws that do things like "forbid annoyances", etc... Because quite frankly, no entity can pre-empt and anticipate every single nuance of technicality or semantics debate that may arise in the field. I used to think such power was abitrary and capricious. But if you think of it, without such power, cops could never get their jobs done. People would be perpetually debating them over semantics in the field. So.... just because there may not be a specific prohibition in whatever city you have, doesn't mean that you can just waltz nilly willy anywhere, being a nuisance, and traipsing over beach blankets. I mean.... you still have to use a little common sense and be discreet. Go at low traffic times, avoid lookie-lous, etc..

Thus, if you saw no prohibitions, then presto, it must not be prohibited. What's there to be confused about?

As for your second question: I'm sure you'll get some detractors from this viewpoint, but if it were me, and I had ANY sort of vacant land of some un-used public variety (road right-of-ways, sewer plant eavesements, or any other sort of undeveloped idle land with no fences or signs, I would not hesitate to hunt it, if I had some sort of lead or reason to want to hunt it (old picnic or camp spot or foundations, or whatever). I mean, let's put it this way: If you were just walking through there on your daily walk, would there be anything to stop you? If you were just there to skip stones on the river, would anyone care less? Ok then: why do you think md'ing falls under some evil category, that it somehow needs special sanctions or worries, or that anyone cares less?

 

[Sapper724]

Public land with no ordinances = DO NOT ask permission! Just do it!

Private property = ALWAYS ask permission from owner.

Commercial land is owned by someone, the realtor can get you that info. Then ask permission from property owner!

Totally agree.

 

[bcurrey]

Thanks for all the responses! Lots of great info here. To clarify a few things in my earlier posts. I have NOT been able to find the city ordinances online. I'm in Murfreesboro, TN. After looking at maps again tonight, it's amazing how much land the city owns! I never knew. Most of the are just large open fields.

I'm going to continue trying to find the ordinances. I have a "friend of a friend" I thought of tonight who is a police officer for the city. I may reach out to him and get his thoughts on what (if anything) they've been told.

 

[fella]

I have a "friend of a friend" I thought of tonight who is a police officer for the city. I may reach out to him and get his thoughts on what (if anything) they've been told.

Wrong! No cops!

You keep looking for someone to say "no", your gunna find it!

 

[Sapper724]

Wrong! No cops!

You keep looking for someone to say "no", your gunna find it!

Yep, its better to just go and not worry about it. If someone says something, you can honestly say you didn't know, and odds are you'll be fine. Go enjoy your detector, relax, dig clean plugs, and have some fun!

 

[Bum Luck]

1) I've read here on the forums that my city was considering banning MD on city property about 4 years ago. Looking online there is no mention of MD rules. In fact there is no ordinances or anything online. Do I call someone and ask? I assume I'll get the typical "no" if I do. How do I proceed

I wouldn't ask if there were no ordinances.

2) Looking at local land records I found a rich guy that lives about 5 hours away owns quite a bit of land. It's a matter of time before medical offices are built on the land. I know the guys mailing address based on online searches. Do I mail him a letter asking permission?

No. I'd research him and ask in person. His main worry is, "Can you keep your mouth shut?" No one wants a project shut down because some schmuck found a reason to shut it down. Why should he give you permission? That's where you're starting from.

3) there is commercial land for sale I want to search on. Do I call the realtor and ask permission?

Realtors can't give you permission. Ask the landowner; see #2.

The city owns about 50 acres. Does that fall under the "public property" category?

The city is public.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

Thanks for all the responses! Lots of great info here. To clarify a few things in my earlier posts. I have NOT been able to find the city ordinances online. I'm in Murfreesboro, TN. After looking at maps again tonight, it's amazing how much land the city owns! I never knew. Most of the are just large open fields.

I'm going to continue trying to find the ordinances. I have a "friend of a friend" I thought of tonight who is a police officer for the city. I may reach out to him and get his thoughts on what (if anything) they've been told.

Thanx for clarifying that. I did a little sleuthing with the magic of google, and came up with some items (perhaps you've already seen):

some rules of some parks there:

http://www.murfreesborotn.gov/DocumentCenter/View/367
http://www.murfreesborotn.gov/DocumentCenter/View/262
http://tn-murfreesboro.civicplus.com/DocumentCenter/View/261

I see nothing in any of those that prohibits metal detectors. But there were other parks on the city's website, that didn't necessarily list rules, like these 3 did. And also: something like metal detecting might not be a "park rule" in any given city, yet may be something on the general muni codes. You know, like for example, a park code may not prohibit nudity or murder. Yet ... you can bet it's somewhere on general city rules, or whatever.

So to see if there was the general muni codes, charter, laws, etc... I find two specifics, but only dealing with two example specifics for Murfreesboro: noise ordinance, and signs:

http://tn-murfreesboro.civicplus.com/DocumentCenter/View/81
http://www.murfreesborotn.gov/DocumentCenter/View/717

And you will notice that the only reason the pages for the noise ordinance was scanned (from printed form elsewhere) was apparently that someone asked, so they put it on their FAQ's, with the answer scanned. But what that tells me, is that ... wherever they pulled that out of, is also available somewhere for viewing. Yes it didn't make it on to this particular city's website (perhaps too much volume, and no one ever took the initiative). But if you're REALLY worried, you can click on the "contact us" tab, and link them to that example of the noise ordinance they have scanned for the website. And ask something to the effect of:

"Where can a person see the entire city's muni charter, codes, laws, etc... from which this particular section was pulled from?"

And they'll direct you to where it's at, at city hall (perhaps in binder forms behind the desk, they'll pull out for you to view, or perhaps at the library, or ... whatever).

But that's only if you're really skittish and worried. I mean, think about it: Where ELSE can or does metal detecting occur: Primarily parks, right? I mean, you can't do it in the street, or on the sidewalk, or other such places. The place normally associated with metal detectors is parks (and maybe school yards). So .... if there were a rule there, it would seem to me that it would have been in the park's rules (which you can see, there's not). But sure, if you're really worried, you can go further to ask where you can study the minutia of general codes.

Because as you've correctly surmised: If you walk in and simply ask "can I metal detect?" (even if you were careful to phrase it "are there any laws or rules that address detecting?" that you risk the "no one cared, till you asked" routine. Or that they'll morph something silly to apply and tell you "no" (when in fact, perhaps the thought never crossed their mind, nor would they ever have noticed or cared).

For me, I just go. Barring obvious historic monuments, or barring a sign in the park.

Or you can talk to any local metal detector dealers in the area. Ask "have any of your customers gotten any flack in any of the parks?". But ... be aware ... that simply because "someone might have gotten flack" at some time, to me, still doesn't mean "there's a rule". There's always the potential that someone might gripe or say "you can't do that". But to me, that does not constitute a "law" or a new "rule" or whatever. To me it simply means: "avoid that one lookie-lou griper" (unless of course they can show you an actual rule, or you can find an actual rule on your own).

 

[Bum Luck]

And also: something like metal detecting might not be a "park rule" in any given city, yet may be something on the general muni codes. You know, like for example, a park code may not prohibit nudity or murder. Yet ... you can bet it's somewhere on general city rules, or whatever.

I doubt those are in their muni codes. Police can also enforce state law, and that's where that's covered.

Because as you've correctly surmised: If you walk in and simply ask "can I metal detect?" (even if you were careful to phrase it "are there any laws or rules that address detecting?" that you risk the "no one cared, till you asked" routine. Or that they'll morph something silly to apply and tell you "no" (when in fact, perhaps the thought never crossed their mind, nor would they ever have noticed or cared).

For me, I just go. Barring obvious historic monuments, or barring a sign in the park.

Or you can talk to any local metal detector dealers in the area. Ask "have any of your customers gotten any flack in any of the parks?". But ... be aware ... that simply because "someone might have gotten flack" at some time, to me, still doesn't mean "there's a rule". There's always the potential that someone might gripe or say "you can't do that". But to me, that does not constitute a "law" or a new "rule" or whatever. To me it simply means: "avoid that one lookie-lou griper" (unless of course they can show you an actual rule, or you can find an actual rule on your own).

It has to be in the muni codes to be prohibited; they can't just make up a rule.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

...It has to be in the muni codes to be prohibited; they can't just make up a rule.

You're right. And I can't think of a single example in any city, where the entire city (in "general" code/law) had a "no detecting" law (like within the entire city limits? Even on private land? NO WAY). So usually, if any city has dreamed up such a thing as a no detecting rule, it's something you'd see in park rules, NOT general city laws. Because, I mean, afterall, where ELSE does a person metal detect, except primarily in the parks, when it comes to municipal land, right? So therefore if I didn't see it in parks rules, I would not knock myself silly wondering "is it in the general muni code?". But if someone is that skittish, they're welcome to knock themselves out. Anything's possible.

As far "can't just make up a rule", yes, if you mean, to say that they try to tell you "metal detecting isn't allowed". You're right, that would be "making up a rule" (assuming no rules really said that). But what they CAN do, is to morph something else to apply. You know, like to say you're harming the foilage, or disturbing earthworms, etc.. That's why it's best just to avoid any such busy-body lookie-lous, and go at low traffic times.